Voila les réponses aux demandes d'identifications. Elles sont placées dans l'ordre de date de demande sans tenir compte de la langue.

Here are the responces about asking of identifications. They are placed in the order of date of request without holding account of the language.

 

 

Identification 2501

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à brisure et à percussion centrale.

Le système est de type "hammerless" et l’ouverture se fait grâce à la clé TOP LEVER. Derrière cette clé se trouve une sûreté à glissière de type Galand semble t’il ?

Les canons juxtaposés en superbes Damas sont lisses et de calibre 12.

Les platines dites "en avant" sont gravées "à bouquets". La crosse en noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise. La longuesse est "à clé".

Sur les canons, la bande de visée est guillochée.

 

Les canons portent la marque d’un armurier Britannique soit H.THOMPSON & C°.

Les Poinçons figurant sur les canons sont les poinçons de Birmingham.

Comme vous pouvez le voir sur les listes jointes les armuriers portant ce patronyme sont très nombreux.

CEPENDANT : On peux déjà éliminer tous les Américains (Les poinçons sont britanniques)... Il reste les Anglais du 19e siècle. On peux éliminer la plupart de ceux avant 1880, sauf erreur de ma part, époque d'apparition des fusils sans chiens apparents (Hammerless).

HYPOTHESE : Je pencherais pour une firme ayant succédé à Thompson Henry (Birmingham vers 1853) sous la dénomination H.THOMPSON & C°, et ayant exercé fin du 19e siècle, début du 20e.

En attendant mieux...

Alain et Michel

 

Identification 2502

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à verrou type Mauser de calibre 7x64.

Il ne porte aucune marque de fabrique visible ?

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège attestant de son origine. Il s’agit de :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1898 à 1968.

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

L* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

Les autres marques ou poinçons sur cette arme m’interpellent (K couronné et SB dans un cercle couronné (si bien lu) ne figurent pas sur les listes de poinçons des pays européens ? S’il s’agit de marque de fabrique je suis tout aussi démuni ?

Les lettres G C J 7 L2 etc. frappés à l’intérieur de l’arme sont vraisemblablement des marques d’ateliers.

GG

 

Identification 2504

 

It is about a revolver top break and central percussion. It manufactured out of crucible cast steel, technique often used by the arms manufacturers of Liège. It would be of gauge 45 or 450. The rifled bore is with sides with a rectangular front sight. The higher and back part of the barrel presents a hollow with hole of screw because probably of a missing part. The closing placed on the side postpones right of the weapon been the subject of the patent n° 034512 of the 24/04/1874 of which copies joined to the present! The smooth cylinder is with six rooms. It is decorated with engravings in foliage as the remainder of the weapon. The plates of grips also seem to be in moulded horn representing an interlacing of foliage.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1993.

 

U crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

OSCAR DRISSEN BREVETE (PATENTS): it is about the mark of the arms manufacturer-inventor Oscar DRISSEN of LIEGE, author of two patents in 1874.

 

104: Serial number of the weapon.

 

ACIER FONDU (CRUCIBLE CAST STEEL): technique of manufacture of the rather widespread weapon in Liege.

 

I hope that the patent can help you for the missing part !

 

GG

 

Identification 2505

 

It is about a shotgun top break and central percussion. Closing is with double bolt and the lever between the external hammers. The weapon would be of gauge 16 according to the mark (17,4) related to the unrifled bores.

Those would be of mark BERNARD engraved on the tape. It could be a question of the famous Parisian manufacturer of barrels but also of one of the BERNARD of Liège whose several barrels also manufactured (see the Net). I lean rather towards the second solution.

The trigger is double under trigger guard. The stick in walnut is of form “pistol” and the buttplate could be in horn or bakelite, not obvious on photograph.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

N* and U*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

17,4: gauge in mm. In use of 1889 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

18.7: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1898 to 1910. I issue reserves with this interpretation because the dates don’t correspond to the others?

 

Comes then a relatively important series from marks of workshops (JR - G - M - pi? - R12 etc) these marks had a significance only for the workshop from where they come.

 

551*: it could be a question of the classification of the barrels.

 

63829: serial number.

 

O G G with back are signs cabbalistic of which I am unaware of the significance!

 

The manufacturer doesn’t have seem-you it left any trademark allowing to identify it. That was frequent in arms manufacture of Liège of the time. These weapons were often bought by local arms manufacturers who struck their own mark sometimes there.

 

GG

 

Identification 2507

 

It is about a pistol called “to trunk”, with percussion and mono-barrel.

The curved trigger is protected from a trigger guard.

The stick is in walnut smooth and of type “banana”. The unrifled bore is octagonal. The hammer is of type “dolphin”. The trunk is engraved style foliage.

The weapon carries the mark of final acceptance “ELG* in a vertical oval” of use of 1846 to 1893 to the proofhouse of LIEGE (Belgium).

It also carries a trademark “F.T in an oval or a circle?”  In any assumption it could belong to FALISSE Louis and TRAPMANN G. of LIEGE.

They were registered with the profhouse of Liège of 1850 to 1884. They are also the Belgian agents of 16 patents.

GG

 

Identification 2508

 

Let us begin again with this “sheep with 5 legs ""

It would seem that wood would come as well as under guard from trigger from a rifle or rather Mousqueton from Hussard MODEL 1767 type II ((I specify that with the sight of against-lock in brass, which with an air of resemblance to the above mentioned Model - but without guarantee)) but not locked it ((1774)), it would be under any reserve, although it does not present either marks of official manufactures at the French ((thus possibility of ignored foreign copy)) doesn't the other sight bring to me anything else on the top of the barrel to possibly know from where it comes ???

The hammer of percussion is obviously Dutchman, the transformation don’t have anything “French” with regard to this tube which presents a technology with runner taken of forging mill (1842) and one chimney of the type “civil” for commercial use...........!!!

The buttplate out of brass obviously “bludgeoned by the assembler using a strong file known as “bastard” is not either of invoice French or even less marking y contiguous!!! Another information on work carried out to modify this rifle of flint to percussion, it is not to in no case a work of arms manufacturer of French Manufacture, but rather that of a "" Sagouin "" on the matter!!! ...........

In enclosures seen on old lock of rifles which I have modified in the regular manner in Manufactures of state!!

On is the model presented in examination there a thing which does not stick to the model derived from 1777 C year IX - would be necessary to also see what she with in the belly and the top gun close to the breech to identify the assembly and possible marking???

In image an interior of lock in end of unrolling!!

Another thing, although the invention of the percussion was invented in 1808 by English Pasteur ..... and the starter improved at the same time, one meets this system on the long weapons only in 1840, except for the rifle of French Rampart Model 1828/31 in mobile breech of cal 21.8mm ball of 2 ounces (84grams) ............!!!

 

http://books.google.fr/books?id=4Rfgul9g7jsC&pg=PA18&dq=armes+%C3%A0+percussions&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=g6viUv_MBKSe0wXdx4HoDw&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=armes%20%C3%A0%20percussions&f=false

 

@lain

 

Identification 2511

 

It is about a shotgun to external hammers and central percussion. The key (Top) of opening (crack) is placed between the hammers. The unrifled bores of gauge 12 are juxtaposed with a front sight out of brass. The stick with cheek in walnut is of type “pistol”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the bench of tests of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

M*, L* and H*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1854 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

12 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

CHOKE 17.4/18.0 and 18.0/18.1: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924. Approximate date of manufacture, by knowing that at the time of the first war 14/18 arms manufacturers were patriotic unemployed.

 

P.1K559,5: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) Of use of 1892 to 1924.

 

D = 70/20.7: Length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the powder without smoke.

 

This weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Approuvé aux poudres vives (Approval with the powders sharp): without comment. Corresponds to the punch PV surmounted of a stylized lion represented above.

 

ACIER FIN (FINE STEEL): advertising mention - without comment.

 

33225: classification of the weapon.

 

A.S. it could act of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles, unfortunately I did not find an agreement in the list (incomplete) of the manufacturers of the valley of Vesdre (Between Liege and Verviers where the manufacturers of barrels were brought together).

 

Manufacturer of the weapon: this manufacturer wanted to remain anonymous since it didn’t leave any mark making it possible to identify it on the weapon, which was frequent for the weapons of export. The foreign purchasers preferred to affix their own mark often there!

 

GG

 

Identification 2513

 

Your weapon is a revolver of Liège of the type “Constabulary”!

 

It carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE (Belgium), namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

R*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The “fork” of date specified by these two punches official is thus: “Between 1877 and 1893”

They are the only punches to be taken into account for the dating of the weapon, not average to be more precise. It is however obvious that of such weapons was manufactured BEFORE the fateful date of 1890!

 

The not very readable mark (98 V?) on the console has nothing to do with the proofhouse.

 

GG

 

Identification 2515

 

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type, of gauge 12 seem it (photo a little fuzzy)? The lock is square, the trigger double, the opening with key “Top Lever” and safety with Galand slide. The stick in walnut is worked “with English”.

 

It carries the lawful punches of the bench of tests of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

L* and 0*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12-70 in the letter omega (read so well?): gauge nominal and length of casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

1Kg372: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Choke 18.2: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech, of use of 1924 to 1968.

 

Letter “x” into tiny: yearly letter of 1945.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

L in a circle: could be a mark of manufacturer of barrels but I could not identify it!

 

J.F.: it is about the mark of Jean FALLA street New Bonne, 35 in LIEGE. (See enclosure)

 

496: classification of the barrels.

 

The manufacturer in itself did not leave of mark allowing identifying it, which was common at the time for the weapons of export.

 

GG

 

Identification 2516

 

It is about a rifle of living room or garden with clamp. According to the page extracted from a catalogue GALAND attached, this of gauge 9 mm with unrifled bore should be. The stick seems to be out of wood of fruit-loft. The curved trigger is protected by a long trigger guard with volute. The weapon is equipped with an extractor; the barrel is with 8 sides.

 

This part carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

R*: countermark of the controller of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

GALAND: it is about the mark of manufacturer GALAND Charles François of Paris but which also had a factory in LIEGE street Vivegnis.

 

DM on the barrel: marks unknown, it could perhaps acts of the manufacturer of this barrel?

 

7951 213: classification of the weapon?

 

Appendix: a page of a catalogue GALAND presenting this weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2518

 

It is about a shotgun top break. The barrels are juxtaposed and connected by a welded metal coil. Locks are of type “ahead”. The hammers are external, between those a key of opening. The percussion is central and the gauge 16 (17,4 mm) . The double trigger is protected by a trigger guard.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

B* and AB*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

16 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

17.0: chokes barrel, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1898 to 1910. What gives us a good indication of the period of manufacture of the weapon.

 

The weapon carries very little of marks and no enabling us to identify the manufacturer of Liège of this weapon. The practice was common for the weapons of export.

Mark TD (read so well?) on the barrels, could be the mark of a manufacturer of barrels of rifles, unfortunately it does not appear in the list of the known manufacturers.

GG

 

Identification 2519

 

It is about a shotgun top break to central percussion. The unrifled bores of gauge 12 are juxtaposed. Locks are “ahead” of type “hammerless” and carry a floral engraving. The system of break (opening) is with key (Top Lever) with a safety of the Galand type behind. The trigger is double under trigger guard. The stick is cut “with English” in a wood of walnut fair European.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, street melts of Tawes, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

P* and M*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

12-70 in a letter omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

1Kg 319: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Choke 18.3 - 18.4: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech, of use of 1924 to 1968.

 

Letter “d”: yearly letter of 1925. (Year of manufacture!).

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Letter D crowned: mark of factory of the manufacturer of gun DELCOUR.

 

FIRTS CLASS CRUSCIBLE STEEL: crucible steel of first class.

 

1424: classification of the guns.

 

U.B?? (Partially unobtrusive Mark): no identifiable.

 

NICOLAS DANTHINE LIEGE: mark of manufacturer DANTHINE Nicolas registered with the proofhouse of Liège of 1909 to 1926. Arms manufacturer established street Henri Maus, 45 in LIEGE. In 1909, it takes again the activity of LEMAIRE Charles, LEMAIRE J.B and DANTHINE Joseph. From 1926 until 1954, the activity continues under the corporate name of “DANTHINE, Nicolas Fils”.

 

GG

 

Identification 2520

 

Hello,

When I asked you more detailed photographs of this punch, it was with a precise aim!!

In fact, it is false!!

These weapons are Spanish; I have two of them, with or without bayonet folding!

It is the first time that I see of them one with a queen-post of the Belgian proofhouse!

It is interesting nevertheless!

Here is the links towards mine: Spanish double pistol

 

Alain

 

Identification 2521

 

It is about a shotgun of gauge 12, with juxtaposed unrifled bores and external hammers. Locks known as “ahead” and are nicely engraved scenes of hunting. The opening (crack) is practiced using the key “Top Lever”.

The stick in walnut is worked “pistol”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

X* and P*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

12 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to June 30, 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

P. 1K343: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram. In use from June 30, 1924 at our days.

 

D = 70 mm /20.6: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the powder without smoke. In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

CHOKE 17.2/18.3 and 17.3/18.5: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

PN in a circle on the barrels: probably a mark of manufacturers of barrels of rifles which do not appear in the list of the manufacturers of Vesdre (river between Liege and Verviers, Belgium).

 

J. TELLINGS is not included in Who’s Who arms manufacture of Liège but well a TELLINGS Hubert, arms manufacturer street Vivegnis, 330 in LIEGE. In 1880 it deposits a patent 222.993 for a mode of assembly of the barrels of rifles with 2 blows.

 

E. BERNARD LIEGE: Thanks to the punches and their validity dates, I think that it is about BERNARD E(mile?) holy Mount Martin (XXe century).

 

GG

 

Identification 2525

 

Il s’agit d’un pistolet basculant à un coup de calibre 6mm. Le canon bascule en armant le chien, il pivote ensuite sur son axe permettant ainsi le chargement/déchargement. L’extraction est automatique à l’ouverture de l’arme. La détente est à la mexicaine. La crosse est constituée de deux plaquettes en noyer quadrillé maintenues par une vis transversale et deux rosettes en laiton.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

L* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

FL 6 : calibre 6mm FLOBERT.

 

W – AB : sur le montant métallique de la crosse, il s’agit de marques de sous-traitants non identifiés.

 

Le fabricant quant à lui n’a laissé aucune marque permettant de l’identifier.

Annexe : un extrait de catalogue liégeois montrant une telle arme.

 

GG

 

Identification 2527

 

L’arme

Pistolet genre "coup de poing" à percussion et à un coup.

Le canon est rond.

La détente sans pontet est de type "à éperon" ou "mexicaine".

La crosse est de forme "banane"

Les poinçons.

Aucun poinçon n’est visible sur les photos.

 

Ce pistolet est sans conteste un "HERO", appelé aux USA le "derringer du pauvre".  Aux USA, la firme Manhattan en a fabriqué 30.000 entre 1868 et 1873, mais il semble que Thomas Bacon les ait déjà produits à partir de 1861.

Il semblerait que ceux marqués "HERO" soient ceux fabriqués par Bacon. Il y en aurait en outre environ 5.000 marqués HERO M.A.Mfg Co pour la Manhattan, et 25.000 marqués HERO A.S.T pour leurs successeurs American Standard Tools.

Ce pistolet a à l'origine un canon rond assez épais et dévissable, disponible en plusieurs longueurs.

Un point amusant est qu'une arme absolument identique et ne portant également aucun marquage (même pas de poinçons d'épreuve) a été produite à Liège dans des quantités également importantes. Les versions liégeoises sont tellement identiques aux américaines, qu'il est im-pos-sible de les distinguer, sauf si elles portent le marquage HERO sur le canon. A tel point qu'on peut se demander s'il s'agit bien de copies, ou plutôt de travail à façon liégeois pour le compte de la Manhattan, sur base de leurs propres gabarits. Cela expliquerait, entre autres, l'absence des poinçons d'épreuve, pas obligatoires sur les armes destinées dès l'origine à l'exportation. Les exemplaires vendus ici seraient alors du "noir" ou des lunchboxes.

On remarquera que la vis traversante qui maintient les plaquettes est en fait une goupille spéciale, qui ne se démonte pas. Toute tentative de démontage se solde immanquablement par le bris des plaquettes.

Idem pour la goupille de la détente: il n'y a pas moyen de l'extraire sans démolir tout le pistolet. Quant à la vis axe du chien, si on arrive à l'enlever, on ne pourra plus la remettre en place.

Il s'agit donc d'une arme "jetable": quand c'est cassé, on jette et on en prend un autre, parce qu'ils sont irréparables.

Cette particularité se retrouve également sur les versions liégeoises.

En tout état de cause, une arme de poche à l'origine très bon marché, au calibre .34, canon lisse.

J'ignore malheureusement quel(s) producteur(s) liégeois a(ont) fabriqué ces armes.

Marcel

 

Identification 2528

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à 6coups (calibre non communiqué). Le canon est à 8 pans et les organes de visée surélevés. L’alimentation se pratique via la portière située à l’arrière droit du barillet. La baguette de déchargement métallique est installée sur le flanc droit du canon. La poignée est constituée de deux plaquettes en bois noirci (noyer ?) Elles sont réunies par une vis transversale et deux rosettes à oreilles.

 

Cette arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

T* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

140 : il pourrait s’agir du numéro de série ?

 

PREVOST : il s’agit très vraisemblablement du fabricant PREVOST Gustave (BE 1877/1899), rue du Pot d’Or, 27 à LIEGE. Il a été l’acquéreur des brevets ABADIE Ismaël (18.05.1881) pour ensuite les céder à l’armurier liégeois SOLEIL Léonard (1861-1899). PREVOST G. a déposé 10 brevets armuriers de 1861 à 1899. A son décès en 1899, sa veuve poursuit le commerce (liquidation ?) jusqu’en 1903.

 

GG

 

La conclusion du recoupement des différentes dates d’existence et de poinçons du banc d’épreuve nous donne donc une fourchette de date de 1877 à 1893. On ne peut malheureusement pas être plus précis.

 

Alain

 

Identification 2531

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion and box frame. The barrel is turned i.e. it is with sides starting from the thunder on a half then round to the mouth. It is equipped with a front sight in half-moon. The gauge was not communicated! The lock is rebounding. The trigger guard is with rest-fingers. The cylinder is with six rooms. The weapon carries plates gutta-perched about it with two initial intermingled J.L. (? read so well?). That does not facilitate the identification.

 

The weapon also carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

U crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Model NS - 1865: this mark resisted overall research. I request the assistance of the readers?

 

1014: serial number.

NS and MD struck the amounts of stick: unknown.

 

GG

 

Identification 2532

 

Il s’agit d’un pistolet dit « brésilien » à brisure et à percussion centrale de calibre 410. Les canons sont juxtaposés au moyen d’une bande centrale portant également un guidon. L’ouverture se pratique à l’aide d’un verrou oscillant placé sous les canons. Le pontet est à repose-doigt. Ce type d’arme assez rustique a été fabriqué pour l’exportation vers l’Amérique du Sud jusqu’à une époque tardive.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation post 1893.

 

O* et K* : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

410-50 dans la lettre oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

10,6 : calibre en mm.

 

L’arme ne porte aucun marquage permettant d’identifier son fabricant, comme cela était presque toujours le cas pour les armes de traite.

 

GG

 

Identification 2533

 

Belle petite pièce ! Il s’agit d’un revolver de poche à percussion annulaire et cadre fermé. Le calibre 22 court. Le barillet est à 6 chambres. L’alimentation se pratique par la portière latérale droite. La baguette pivote sur son axe et peut ainsi pénétrer dans chaque chambre. L’arme porte une belle mais simple gravure florale. Les crossettes me semblent être en ivoire (à vérifier de visu). Elles sont maintenues par une vis transversale et deux rosettes en laiton. La détente est repliable sans pontet. Le canon est rond et vraisemblablement rayé avec guidon en demi-lune.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

K* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme  porte également les marques suivantes :

 

THE LINCOLN AMERICAN RIM FIRE : il s’agit effectivement d’une marque utilisée dès 1887 par ORTMANN Herman. Il utilisait également les marques suivantes : THE THUNDERER – THE NEW AMERICAN MODEL – LE FOUDROYANT – EXPOSITION UNIVERSELLE 1878 – THE DEFENDER AMERICAN MODEL OF 1878.

 

J.R. sur un montant métallique de crosse : en toute vraisemblance, il s’agirait des initiales d’un sous-traitant. Ceux-ci étaient nombreux. L’arme passait dans de nombreuses mains et devait pouvoir être identifiée. Il en est de même pour le chiffre 82 qui n’est aucunement une partie de date.

 

Le fabricant

 

Il s’agit donc d’ORTMANN Herman, rue d’Amay, 13 de 1866 à 1869 puis  boulevard d’Avroy, 74 a LIEGE. Il était inscrit au banc d’épreuves liégeois de 1865 à 1879. De 1866 à 1887, il dépose cinq brevets belges pour notamment : un système de revolver à culasse basculante, un système de revolver à 7 coups et à percussion centrale, un nouveau système de fermeture applicable aux revolvers.

 

Ci-joint : copie d’un cachet d’ORTMANN qui indique une troisième adresse soit Place Saint Jean, 20 à LIEGE.

 

GG

 

Identification 2534

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse hammerless à brisure et à canons juxtaposés de calibre 12. La platine est carrée. La brisure (ouverture) se pratique à l’aide de la clé « top lever » placée en haut de la platine. La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise c'est-à-dire sans crosse pistolet. La longuesse est à poussoir.

Les poinçons

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

AB* et H* : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours. Le PERRON liégeois est un monument symbole des libertés de la ville depuis plusieurs siècles. Il représente une colonne de pierre surmontée de gland de cène et monté sur 3 lions accroupis. (Voir photo ci-jointe).

 

D = 70 mm /20.7 : longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1892 à 1924.

 

P = 1K326 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage du 30 juin 1924 à nos jours.

 

12C dans un losange : calibre, en usage du 04.10.1898 au 30 juin 1924.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

Les marques

 

L’arme ne porte aucune mention du fabricant liégeois comme cela était très souvent le cas et ce souvent à la demande de l’acheteur. C’est le cas ici puisque les canons sont marqués du patronyme d’un armurier parisien soit PIERRE MOUNANES, 52 rue Gaumartin à PARIS !

 

GG

 

Identification 2536

 

Pistol of cyclist, also called “sparrow pistol” or even “VeloDog”, or “pistol of factor”, calibre 6mm bosquette, unrifled bore, manufactured to thousands of specimens in France about 1895-1905 and exported in all Europe. With the purchase of…., you receive a small pistol "cyclist" in premium!!

There exists about it of all the sizes and models, some have one ejector and a guillotine breech.

These ejector and guillotine being able to be provided with levers of all sizes.

Some don’t even have that, it is necessary to remove the drawn cartridge with a stem by the interior.

The majority manufactured in France or Belgium, were sold "in white" in Germany, and were tested in Bremen. U surmounted of two crowns is the official punch of Bremen and means “untersucht” (tested).

Little looked after completion, but folklore obliges. These things were sold by whole baskets on the markets and were offered in premium to any purchaser of a bicycle.

These small guns, of which some have a barrel going up to 20 cm and present sometimes an acceptable completion are amusing to collect, there are tens of alternatives.

Yours has a small ventilation on the top of the barrel, it is thus a blank weapon.

The barrel is probably stopped!

 

Alain

 

Identification 2540

 

It is about a rifle of living room of the type FLOBERT of gauge 22 long. The rifled bore is octagonal. The trigger is protected by a trigger guard with volutes. The stick in walnut is of “pistol” type.

Punches

 

They are the punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

A*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

Marks

 

BELGIUM on the barrel: without comment.

 

M.H.: does this mark perhaps the mark of manufacturing or mark it of a subcontractor?  The only arms manufacturer having these initial in the lapse of time determined by the punches (see above) could be HERMANN, Martin (widowed) arms manufacturer, street Hoyoux, 250 with HERSTAL (1924), this without certainty none.

This assertion is to be taken with much prudence since the place of these initial is in fact a place rather used by subcontractors!!

 

GG

 

Identification 2542

 

Your revolver is a revolver of the Lefaucheux type says “open frame”, i.e. the top is not fixed at the part postpones weapon, only the low part of the carcass is maintained by a screw with the front part.

 

Owing to the fact that only a point of fixing maintained the barrel and its console with the remainder of the weapon, these small revolvers were rather fragile.

 

In the area of Liege hundreds of craftsmen manufactured these weapons per thousand for sale it in many countries.

 

Its ammunition is a cartridge “pinfire” which existed in gauge 5, 7, 9 and 12mm.

Until the invention of the cartridge with central percussion the ammunition with pin were extremely appreciated.

The calibre more current is the 7mm, which is probably the case of yours.

 

This weapon carries only one punch of the proofhouse of Liege (Belgium) which one can define as follows:

 

Ø      N crowned: countermark of controller in use between 1853 and 1877.

 

The mark EL Crowned is the mark of Eugéne Lefaucheux. This weapon was thus manufactured in Belgium in its factory of Liege.

 

Alain

 

Identification 2544

 

Copy of Liège of a revolver S&W top break. The barrel is long with a front sight in half-moon. The cylinder with 6 blows is grooved. The extractor is out of star.

The gauge would be into 40-44 what is extremely possible but cannot be controlled.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the bench of tests of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

AH*: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries some marks can explicit, like:

 

L crowned: this mark not identified to date is always found on the barrel. We think that it could be a question of the mark of a founder of barrels with HERSTAL (Liege).

 

13: it is probably about the number of the weapon.

 

49: ignored significance.

 

GG

 

The fork of date of manufacture of this weapon is thus between 1894 and 1968.

The weapon not carrying any indication of manufacturer, which was common at the time, it will thus remain anonymous!

 

Identification 2546

 

SILLON ou (FILLON) Louis Fidèle

Reconnu Maître Arquebusier Arbalestrier par la réalisation d'un Chef d’œuvre en 1770.

Précisément le 29 Décembre 1770...................C'est peut être son chef d’œuvre ????

@lain (France)

 

 

Il s'agit bien de FILLON, arquebusier du roi à la fin du 18e, spécialisé dans les armes à feu de luxe.

 Il a signé entre autres une somptueuse paire de pistolets d'officier des Grenadiers à cheval de la Maison du Roi, datée 1775, qui est passée en vente à Lyon le 9 mars 2003 (M. Missilier expert).

Frédéric Farret d'Astiès (France)

 

 

#2546 Je crois que Fillon est correcte. Le 'A' couronne sur la plaque de couche est la marque de décharge pour Paris 1774-1780.

Marque qui garanti que c'est de l'argent, vérifié par l'association des orfèvres de Paris

 

Amities,

Peter (USA)

 

 

Bonsoir Alain,

 

Il s'agit de FILLON fourbisseur, arquebusier et "fournisseur du Roy" à Paris, 239 rue Michel Pelletier. Associé à Laugumier à partir de 1799.

Une petite précision sur les poinçons. Se sont ceux de l'orfèvre. Ils permettent de mieux cerner le lieu et la date de fabrication:

 

A couronné, poinçon de charge (pièce présentée à la maison commune, l'orfèvre devra payer une taxe) pour la ville de Paris de novembre 1774 à juillet 1780.

Tête de taureau, poinçon de décharge de Paris (l'orfèvre a payé sa taxe au Roi)

N couronné, année de fabrication.

 

J'avais oublié une précision et pas la moindre le N couronné a été utilisé à Paris pour l'année 1776-1777.

 

En résumé:

 

Fusil de luxe à silex par FILLON fourbisseur, arquebusier et "fournisseur du Roy" à Paris, 239 rue Michel Pelletier. Fabriqué en 1776/1777, deux ans après le début du règne de Louis XVI, comme en témoignent les poinçons d'orfèvre.

- A couronné, poinçon de charge (pièce présentée à la maison commune, l'orfèvre devra payer une taxe) pour la ville de Paris de novembre 1774 à juillet 1780.

- Tête de taureau, poinçon de décharge de Paris (l'orfèvre a payé sa taxe au Roi)

- N couronné, année de fabrication 1776/1777.

 

Amitiés,

 

Jean-Pierre Bastié (France)

 

Identification 2547

 

It is about a rifle REMINGTON of the type ROLLING BLOCK model 1867 or 68? This retrograde rotating weapon was invented by American named Léopold GEIGER in 1863, was improved by another compatriot named Joseph RIDER and was finally manufactured by the arms company of E. REMINGTON into 1867/68. The present weapon was manufactured in LIEGE under Remington contract by Nicolas Charles LARDINOIS. The weapon is famous solid and easy to use. It is equipped with a stock in walnut smooth of English type with “brassadelle” and one to “embouchoir” on the barrel. The bayonet is with casing. The rear sight on the barrel is with cursor. The trigger guard is with rest-finger. The massive hammer is with falling block. (see more detail on our site).

 

The weapon carries the punches of the bench of tests of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in an oval: final acceptance of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

X crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

Peron: inspection, of 1853 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

PATENT REMINGTON 9314: indicate that the weapon was manufactured according to the patent of this weapon.

 

N.C. LARDINOIS Fabriquant et Arquebusier du Roi des Pays-Bas (N.C. Manufacturing LARDINOIS and Harquebusier of the King of the Netherlands): it is about the arms manufacturer of Liège Nicolas, Charles Lardinois, Faubourg Vivegnis, 112 (district of North) in Liege. It was registered with the bench of tests of Liège of 1850 to 1862. He is also the author of 11 improvement and patents.

 

Enclosure: advertizing insert of time of this arms manufacturer!

 

GG

 

Identification 2549

 

It is about a shotgun to unrifled bores and juxtaposed of gauge 16. The lock is of type hammerless (hidden hammer), the key of opening is of type “Top Lever” and safety with slide right behind is of type GALAND. Locks are “ahead” and engraved “with bouquets”. The stick out of wooden of walnut (seen partial) should be worked with English (without handle pistol!).

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

P*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

16-65 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

Letter “g” into tiny: yearly letter of 1928 (Year of manufacture of your gun).

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

1KG265: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without fume (weapons smooth) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries punches of Hungarian tests, namely:

 

1 escutcheon carrying two undulated lines, surmounted letter R with the dates 03.88 and the other 76. These two punches indicate that the weapon has undergoes a second test after transformation or repair.

 

Lastly, the weapon carries the following marks:

 

Mark representing a blacksmith in front of his anvil: mark of Alphonse FORGERON (BLACKSMITH in English) (B.E. 1880/1932) street Adolphe Borgnet, 5 then 4 in LIEGE. It is the agent of two Belgian patents, in 1902 for a safety for rifles hammerless and in 1910 for a shotgun to single trigger. He also deposits his trademark in 1902.

 

ROYAL COMPRESSED STEEL: grade of steel having been used for manufacture of the barrels. I am unaware of if this mark belongs to FORGERON (no trace?) or with the manufacturer of barrels of rifles?

In appendix:

- a heading FORGERON.

- mark GORGERON.

GG.

 

Identification 2550

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver hammerless (dit bossu) de type « vélo-dog » si j’en crois le long barillet à 5 alvéoles. Le calibre « serait » donc du 22 vélo-dog – 6 mm ? Le corps de l’arme est jaspé tandis que le barillet et le canon sont bronzés. L’arme porte une sûreté manuelle à l’arrière du flanc gauche (marqué SUR.). Le canon rayé est rond avec cran de mire et guidon en demi-lune. L’arme est dotée d’une baguette pivotante sur un axe, elle doit être introduite tour à tour dans les alvéoles du barillet pour le déchargement des douilles. Les crossettes en bois (noyer ?) sont quadrillées et fixées à l’aide d’une vis centrale.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

 

AF* : (si bien lu ?) Contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

EW sous étoile : il s’agit de la marque du fabricant d’armes Emile WARNANT rue Lamarck, 99 à LIEGE. Il fut inscrit au banc d’épreuves de 1911 à 1934. Il est le dépositaire de 4 brevets d’inventions. 

 

Le chiffre 8 pourrait être le numéro de série de l’arme.

 

GG

 

Identification 2552

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse de type hammerless. Les deux canons à âme lisse sont juxtaposés. Une clé « top lever » est placée au dessus de la platine carrée. Une sûreté de type Galand est placée juste derrière.

La platine est gravée en fond creux de motifs animaliers et végétaux. Les canons au niveau de la platine portent une bande dorée représentant une tige de feuillage et de feuilles dorées.

La crosse en bois de noyer est de type pistolet.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

G*et T* : contremarques des contrôleurs post 1877.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire post 1852.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

12 C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

 

P1K519.4 : Poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses), en usage de 1892 à 1924.

 

CHOKE 18.2 (le reste non lisible) Canons chokés : calibrés en mm à 22cm de la culasse et à la bouche. En usage de 1898 à 1910.

 

D=  65 m/m  / 20. 6 : Longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1892 à 1924.

 

L’arme porte également les marquages suivants :

 

J B R couronné dans une croix de saint André : Il s’agit de la marque de fabrique de l’armurier liégeois Jean Baptiste RONGé place St Jean, 4 de 1832 à 1929. En 1929 elle devient l’ARMAF.

 

J. WALLSCHLEGEL NEUFCHATEL : marque à l’or fin sur la bande entre les canons. Il s’agit, soit du revendeur suisse, soit  du premier propriétaire ?

 

L.R. sur les canons : marque vraisemblablement d’un sous-traitant liégeois.

 

Canons croisés ESSEN le reste étant illisible : il s’agit très vraisemblablement du fabricant des canons, mais je n’ai pu déchiffrer complètement la mauvaise photo.

 

34825 : numéro de l’arme.

 

GG.

 

Identification 2553

 

Not obvious to make an identification without pictures of the whole weapon !!

This identification will be thus in proportion to the request.

It is probably about a rifle of garden of the type WARNANT?

The barrel is with 8 sides and of calibre 9mm. I am unaware of if it is striped or not ?

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

A*: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Crowned JBR: mark from the manufacturer of Liège Jean-baptiste RONGé, place St Jean, 4 in Liege (see the site).

 

9503: serial number.

 

FL 9mm: calibre.

 

H. MALCHAIR: small arms manufacturer of Liège then of Cheratte (suburb of Liege). It deposits in 1856 and 1869 two patents relating to one “embouchoir” of rifle of infantry and a system of safety applicable to the pistols and rifles. It was probably about a supplier of J.B. Rongé !!

 

GG

 

Identification 2554

 

It is indeed about a revolver of origin of Liège (Belgian) manufactured by the company BERTRAND Antoine & Fils street Fabry, 25 in Liege.

The company was registered with the proofhouse of Liege of 1886 to 1900.

This company was specialized in the revolver which bore evocative names like THE TERRIFIC - THE DESTROYER – THE ZULU – THE HUNTER – THE BUSMAN – THE MURDERER – THE PROTECTOR -  THE DEFENDER – THE BOLD – THE REVENGER – THE WAKEFUL – THE WESTERN BOY – THE STRONG and so on..

The activity of this company was taken again in 1900 by LES FABRIQUES D’ARMES REUNIES S.A.

This weapon is thus a revolver with vertical percussion (pinfire) and with open frame of type “Lefaucheux”, the alveolus barrel with 6 shots (so well considering?), the loading is practiced by the side door and unloading using the rod sliding in a guide integrated into the console and which is maintained by a small leaf spring.

The barrel is with eight sides with front sight in half-moon.

The grips in wood (walnut tree?) are finely smooth and joined together by a through screw and two rivet washers, it could be a question of plates of grips remade.

 

It carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

Spangled ELG in a crowned oval: acceptance post 1893.

 

L spangled (so well considering?): countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

6: is a job number?

 

Crowned mark B&F: belongs to the arms manufacturer BERTRAND Antoine & Fils (Son).

 

Mark THE DESTROYER was deposited the 17.10.1885.

 

GG

 

Identification 2555

 

According to your photographs, it is about a shotgun, double juxtaposed, with unrifled bores.

Locks are of hammerless type with key of opening Top Lever and safety with slide of the Galand type.

 

Engravings in hollow bottom of this weapon are “vegetable”.

 

The weapon carries a lawful punch of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

.

EL in cursive letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

It also carries marks of Hungarian tests, namely:

 

a) ECU 2 vague R + 82: Punch of D test and date

b) ECU NR 78: Final test of the weapon in white or delivery condition

c) ECU NR: Idem

D) 32895-49: N° of the test?

 

The other marks on the barrels are:

 

9332: classification of the weapon.

 

SIEMENS MARTIN STEEL FALLA PATENT BRAZING indicates that the manufacturer of barrels of rifles Jean FALLA street Bonne News, 35 in Liege used steel SIEMENS MARTIN for the manufacture of the barrels.

The initial J.F also belong to Jean FALLA (see site).

 

LOVENA: female first name! I am unaware of to whom it belong, mark of the weapon, owner???

 

Superimposed marks are visible on the barrels, I could not identify them!

 

There seems finally that the manufacturer itself did not leave of trademark on his weapon, it will remain unfortunately anonymous!

 

GG

 

Identification 2556

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à canons lisses et juxtaposés de calibre 16. Les platines sont de type en avant et la brisure se pratique à l’aide d’une clé top ! La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves liégeois, à savoir :

 

ELG*dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

U* : contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

Choke 16.8 : canons chokés, calibrés à 22 cm de la culasse, en usage de 1924 à 1968.

 

Lettre x en minuscule : lettre annale de 1945.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

16-70 dans la lettre oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

1K225 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

3337 : numéro de série de l’arme.

 

FABRIQUE NATIONALE D’ARMES DE GUERRE – HERSTAL Belgique : origine de l’arme, soit la FN de Herstal Liège.

 

G.G.

 

Identification 2557

 

It is of course about a revolver NAGANT which I think of being of Serbe model, the rectangular front sight is specific (also on the Swedish model). The rifled bore is with sides and the alveolus cylinder. The grips are in walnut squared maintained by a central screw and two rivet washers with ears.

This revolver is in calibre 7,5 mm Nagant with six shots. The door of load is of type Abadie, it makes it possible to neutralize the use of the hammer when it is in open position. A simple pressure on the trigger makes it possible to make turn the cylinder, returning the operations of easier loading/unloading.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

B *: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Patent NAGANT 5354: mark manufacturing NAGANT in LIEGE (see the site)

 

4089: serial number.

 

GG

 

This revolver was manufactured (amongst other things) for the Swedish army by the Husqvarna firm in great number. In this version it is not rare but manufactured by Nagant itself (As yours) it is very rare!!

 

Alain Daubresse (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2558

 

It is about a topbreak shotgun with opening known as “key snake”. The unrifled bores of gauge 12 are juxtaposed. The stick out of walnut is of type “pistol”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

LA* and L*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

12MC in an oval: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

10.3: gauge in mm, of use of 1898 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following mark:

 

P.M. in a circle: Just as it is this mark is not included in the directory of the arms mark of Liège!  According to initial P.M. it could be a question of the mark belonging to MASSONET Pascal manufacturer of weapons street of Harlez, 32 in LIEGE (1895/1904), but it is only assumption remaining to be confirmed.

 

In appendix: seal of this arms manufacturer.

 

GG

 

Identification 2562

 

It is about a top break rifle of small hunting of the type LECLERCQ. The opening is practiced using a key says “Key snake” placed on the right side of the weapon. The rifled bore is with 8 sides of gauge 12mm, the metal parts carry an engraving “in foliage”. The stick is not visible on the photographs!

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

12MC in a rhombus: gauge weapon, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

R*: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to 1968.

 

10.4: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

Mark ml crowned in an oval belongs to “Manufacture Liégeoise d’Armes à Feu”, street of Green-Wood, 52 in LIEGE (see our site).

 

Appendix: a page extracted from a catalogue of this company and which presents the same parts.

 

GG

 

Identification 2563

 

It is about a revolver of Liège of BULLDOG type to central percussion and box frame. The very short barrel is round and of gauge 12mm. I am unaware of if it smooth or is striped (not of pictures!)The sight consist of a front sight in half-moon and a bead integrated into the carcass. The alveolus cylinder is with 5 blows. The concave trigger is without trigger guard. The rod swivels on an axis and can thus be introduced into the cells of the cylinder. The loading is practiced by a door located on the side postpones right of the weapon. The grips seem me to be out of wood, they are squared and maintained by a central screw and two rivet washers.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

AH*: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

12M in a rhombus: gauge, of de1898 use at 1924. That gives us an idea of the period of manufacture of the weapon.

The weapon doesn’t carry any mark of manufacturer, only the figure 3 which could be a serial number !

 

GG

 

This revolver has nothing to do with a vélodog!

In fact the name “vélodog” is that of a ammunition, it is in calibre 5,75mm or 6mm and is longer than the normal, the cylinder of the weapon which fires this ammunition is thus particularly long compared to its calibre. By extension one also calls vélodog the weapon, but it is the ammunition which bears this name.

Your weapon draws from the cartridges of 12mm, nothing to see with the vélodog, it is the same weapon as mine: http://www.littlegun.be/ma_collection/belgique/be%20klmno/a%20be%20martin%20jean%20francois%20gb.htm

It is a “SCHEINTOD”

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2564

 

Bonjour Monsieur,

 

Il est un fait que ces Remington à percussion ont été - et sont encore - largement copiés, aux USA mais surtout en Italie (Uberti, Pietta et autres), et que ces copies sont bougrement bien faites.

 

Je peux cependant immédiatement vous tranquiliser à ce sujet: votre arme est bel et bien un Remington New Model Navy 1863 original.  Les preuves les plus évidentes sont :

 

- Marquage original sur le canon, en 3 lignes (non seulement TRES difficile à imiter, mais surtout interdit dans le monde entier et susceptible de sanctions presque équivalentes à celles prévues pour les faux-monnayeurs):

- N° de série sur le côté gauche du bâti de crosse, en chiffres mal alignés (poinçons individuels) - les copies ont leur n° sur le cul de crosse, à l'extérieur

- Derniers chiffres de ce n° sur la languette avant du pontet (n'apparaît JAMAIS sur les copies)

- Qualité du laiton du pontet (ceux des copies ont subi un traitement les rendant "inaltérables" et ne leur permettant pas de se patiner; de plus, leur alliage est différent, et ça se voit comme une mouche dans une tasse de lait)

- Absence de poinçons d'épreuve italiens (Brescia) sur le côté droit de la carcasse (profonds et difficiles à faire disparaître)

- Absence de l'affreuse mention "BLACK POWDER ONLY" sur le pan gauche du canon.

- Le fait qu'un chiffre n'apparaît pas sous le canon est également très commun; apparemment, ces numérotations, apposées en cours de production (donc avant la trempe du canon et le montage sur le châssis) étaient confiées au gougnafier de service.

 

Sans poinçons militaires tant sur le bâti que sur la crosse, il s'agit effectivement d'un modèle civil, très populaire aux USA après la Guerre Civile.

La production totale s'élève à environ 32.000 pièces, mais le n° de série plus grand s'explique par le fait que ces revolvers ont été numérotés à la suite du modèle 1861 (5.000 ex) et du Beals Navy (encore plus prédécesseur), dans la même série.

 

Je pourrais vous énumérer toutes les variantes de ces prestigieux revolvers, tant en .44 qu'en .36 et y compris la version double action du modèle dit "Belt", mais ça va me prendre du temps. Je vous suggère de me recontacter plus tard à ce sujet.

 

Cordialement

 

Marcel

 

Identification 2568

 

Il s’agit d’un pistolet à percussion verticale et à broche (Lefaucheux) Les deux canons sont juxtaposés. Ce type d’arme est dénommé « à l’écossaise ». L’arme est dotée de deux chiens et d’une seule détente rétractable. La crosse en noyer lisse se termine par un arrondi. Le calibre n’est pas indiqué sur l’arme !

L’ouverture ou brisure se pratique à l’aide d’un système à glissière me semble-t’ il placé sur le flanc gauche de l’arme.

 

Curieusement l’arme ne porte aucun poinçon du banc d’épreuves de Liège, il s’agit vraisemblablement d’une arme sortie « en douce » de la fabrique.

 

Elle porte néanmoins les marques suivantes :

 

181 : numéro de série apposé par le fabricant.

 

J.OURY BREVETE : cette marque fait référence au fabricant OURY J.J. de Saint Rémy (petit village proche de LIEGE). L’intéressé a déposé 4 brevets belges de 1859 à 1864, notamment pour :

 

- Des perfectionnements apportés au pistolet Lefaucheux.

 

-Des additions au pistolet Lefaucheux.

 

-Un balancier à ressort propre à la fermeture des armes à feu en général.

 

-Une fermeture de pistolet-revolver dit « coups de poing ». 

 

GG

 

On a donc pas pu se baser sur les poinçons du banc d’épreuve comme on le fait systématiquement chaque fois mais on a la chance que l’artisan en question à une durée d’exercice professionnelle très courte et donc la fourchette de fabrication de votre arme est : entre 1589 et 1864 !!

 

Alain Daubresse (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2569

 

It is about a revolver of pocket of the hammerless type called “Bossu” (uneven) in LIEGE. The rifled bore is short and round with a front sight in half-moon. Calibre it was not communicated? The grooved cylinder with 5 or 6 blows (non visible on photographs?). The articulated rod perhaps slipped in turn into each room for unloading. The loading is practiced by the right side door. The grips are out of wood (ebony or false-ebony?) smooth, linked by a central screw and two rivet washers.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

B*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

C crowned: mark unknown, it does not belong to the proofhouse. It could be a question of a mark of founder of barrel?

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

23 on the cylinder: number of the weapon.

 

M J Bte: mark of manufacturer MUSSEN-LALLEMAND Jacques, manufacturer of revolvers, street Pied of Thiers, 51 in LIEGE. It was registered with the proofhouse of Liège of 1908 to 1914 then of 1919 to 1952. It deposited 6 patents of 1907 to 1927. It manufactured a series of revolvers hammerless under the mark IDEAL.

 

J.VAN MALLE BRUXELLES: arms manufacturer-retailer retailer of this weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2574

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil à brisure et ouverture « clé serpent » Le calibre est de 9mm Flobert. Les canons juxtaposés sont lisses et de calibre 12. Le système de fermeture à double verrou et levier latéral. Ce dernier au lieu d’être placé devant le pontet, contourne la platine  et vient terminer près de la place qu’occupe le pouce lorsque l’on tient le fusil rendant ainsi la manipulation plus aisée. La crosse en noyer est de type « pistolet ».

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

S* et X* : contremarques des contrôleurs post 1877.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

12-65 dans une lettre oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille, en usage du 30 juin 1924 à nos jours.

 

1K482 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

CHOKE 12.8 : canons chokés : calibrés à 22 cm de la culasse, en usage de 1924 à 1968.

 

Lettre omikron (sans certitude) Il pourrait s’agir de la date de fabrication ??

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

A. DUPONT LIEGE Belgique : il s’agit de la marque du fabricant Alexandre DUPONT rue de la Province, 19 à LIEGE, inscrit au banc d’épreuves de 1923 à 1961.

 

D Couronné (si bien lu ?) Il pourrait s’agir d’un canon DELCOUR à Nessonvaux.

 

GG

 

Identification 2575

 

It is about a pistol with barrel juxtaposed known as “Scottish”. These rifled bores are in gauge 10.6mm. The two trigger are protected by a trigger guard with rest-finger. The opening (top break) of the barrels is practiced using the key placed under the barrels. The stick consist of two plates out of wooden (Walnut?) squared. It ends in a metal plate on which a carry-ring is fixed. The two hammers are external and are in front of a safety with slide.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance item 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

W* and AH*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

10.06: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

R crowned: rifled bores, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

The weapon carries no mark allowing the identification of the manufacturer. That was often the case for weapons of small quality intended for export in particular towards South America.

 

GG

 

Identification 2576

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse hammerless doté de deux canons lisses juxtaposés et de calibre 16. La platine est carrée et la clé d’ouverture est de type « top lever ». La crosse de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise. Les canons portent les mentions dorées à l’or fin « POUDRE BLANCHE » et « ACIER COCKERILL ».

 

Cette arme a reçu les poinçons d’épreuves du banc de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

X et R* : contremarques des contrôleurs post 1877.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

16C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

 

P.1K251, 2 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses). En usage de 1892 à 1924.

 

D= 70 mm / 18.9 : longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1892 à 1924.

 

CHOKE 16.3/18.9 et 16.5/16.9 : canons chokés : calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse et à la bouche. En usage de 1910 à 1924.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

ACLB dans un cercle : marque du fabricant de canons de fusils LHERMITE & BRUYNINCX.

 

J.J. dans un ovale : il pourrait éventuellement s’agir de la marque de Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph quai du Canal, 28 à HERSTAL.

 

530 : numéro de série ?

 

GG

 

Identification 2578

 

Il s’agit effectivement d’un fusil de guerre à n’en pas douter. Cependant son identification est compliquée. Il ressemble au MANNLICHER 1886 mais ce n’en est pas un ! Il ne porte aucune marque permettant de l’identifier avec certitude.

Les seules marques identifiables sont celles de la Fabrique d’Armes de l’ETAT rue Saint Léonard à Liège. Il s’agit de :

 

G.B. dans un ovale : au tonnerre du canon, il s’agit de la marque du gouvernement belge, propriété de l’Etat.

 

ELG dans un ovale vertical : épreuve du gouvernement belge.

 

Lettres LH dans un cercle, frappées sur la crosse : marques diverses des contrôleurs

 

Cercle en 3 parties FDG – JD – 1887 : Il s’agit d’une estampille aux initiales de l’inspecteur des armes et du contrôleur principal. Le L couronné veut dire Léopold. Ce cachet se mettait sur le côté droit des crosses des armes longues.

 

1887 : année de fabrication.

 

18 : numéro de série ??

 

Désolé de ne pouvoir en dire plus !

 

GG

 

J’avais beaucoup d'autres choses à faire et fin mai / début juin on était à Montmirail pour célébrer le bicentenaire de la bataille.

Alors, ce jour j'ai trouvé le système cherché. Il s'agit d'un fusil Mannlicher modèle 1885 (répétition lineaire), voir l'annexe.

 

C'était une présérie du modèle 1886 introduit pas l'armée austro-hongroise.

C'est très intéressant que l'armée belge a également essayé cette arme.

 

Malheureusement, le levier d'armement est cassé.

 

Bien amicalement

 

Dirk (Allemagne)

 

Identification 2580

 

Il s’agit me semble t’il d’un fusil de chasse du système Lefaucheux (à broches). Les canons en damas sont juxtaposés et fixés à « tiroirs ». Les platines sont de type « en arrière » et les chiens à base plate pour frapper les broches. La crosse en noyer est façonnée « à l’anglaise ». Le système d’ouverture de l’arme est en principe le même que le système Lefaucheux  mais la clé se trouve sous la sous-garde. Elle a l’avantage d’être plus commode à manoeuvrer.

 

L’arme porte quelques poinçons (pas tous) du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

LD* : je pense qu’il s’agit d’un poinçon de contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

17,2 : il s’agit du calibre en mm, en usage de1889 à nos jours.

 

L’arme porte également une marque dans un rectangle arrondi avec des lettres dorées et couronnées qui pourraient être P.J.H mais sans certitude. Il s’agit « vraisemblablement » des initiales du premier propriétaire ?

 

Les marques autours de la base des chiens sont :

 

DOURLEZ et VAN DE WIRT FABRICANTS A LIEGE.

Je n’ai trouvé aucune trace de ces fabricants dans la documentation sur l’armurerie liégeoise pourtant fort importante. Il y a eu au XIXe siècle des associations momentanées qui n’ont guère laissé de traces dans l’histoire.

 

GG

 

Identification 2581

 

Il s’agit ici d’un très classique revolver de poche, type Lefaucheux à broches. Le barillet lisse est à 6 coups et est cranté pour recevoir les broches. Le canon rayé est à 8 pans avec un guidon type grain d’orge. Le cran de mire devrait être creusé dans la tête du chien (non visible sur les photos). La détente est lisse et sans pontet, elle est repliable sur la carcasse pour faciliter la mise en poche. La portière de chargement sur le flan droit est manquante. Les crossettes sont en bois quadrillé et maintenues par une vis centrale et deux rosettes.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

M* : contremarque du contrôleur en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

Elle porte également les marques suivantes :

 

EL couronné (si bien lu car partiellement effacée) : il pourrait s’agir de la marque de l’entreprise d’Eugène LEFAUCHEUX quai de Fragnée, 13 à Liège qui a été opérationnelle de 1867 à 1873. L’entreprise ayant été en liquidation pendant plusieurs années, cela explique « peut-être » la discordance de dates (1873 et 1877 ??).

 

LDR sur un montant de crosse : il s’agit vraisemblablement de la marque d’un sous-traitant liégeois non identifié ?

 

19  11 : (si bien lu) : il ne s’agit pas d’une date (chiffres trop écartés) mais bien d’un numéro de série (19 ?) et peut-être d’un numéro d’atelier ?

 

GG

 

Identification 2582

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale et canons juxtaposés en acier. Le système est dit « hammerless » avec clé d’ouverture « top lever » et sûreté à glissière de type Galand. La crosse ne noyer est façonnée « à la française » !!

 

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

AB* et B*: contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

16 C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

Choke 16.4/17.0 et 16.9/17.0 : canons chokés. Calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse et à la bouche. En usage de 1910 à 1924.

 

D = 65 mm / 18.9 : Longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1892 à 1924.

 

1K151 : Poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage du 30 juin 1924 à nos jours.

 

Cette pièce porte également les marques suivantes :

 

Maison Jos. THONON : Cette maison a été inscrite au banc d’épreuves liégeois de 1885 à 1912.

 

Fait pour Nattan MAPSELLE (si bien lu ?) propriétaire de l’arme.

 

6619 : Numéro de l’arme.

G91 : Marque d’atelier ?

 

Les marques A dans un grand C et autres en lettres arrondies me sont inconnues. Elles appartiennent vraisemblablement au fabricant ??

 

GG

 

Identification 2584

 

Il s’agit d’un pistolet liégeois dit «  à l’écossaise ». Il est à deux coups à percussion centrale. Les deux canons (lisses ? rayés ?) sont juxtaposés (calibre non indiqué ?) Ces deux canons basculent vers l’avant en actionnant la clé Lefaucheux placée dessous. Ces canons sont dotés d’un extracteur. Une sûreté à languette est placée derrière les chiens. Le pontet à repose-doigt protège les deux détentes courbes. La calotte est métallique et à balustre. La crosse est en ébène ou faux-ébène lisse.

Les poinçons présents sur cette arme sont fortement effacés et difficiles à identifier. Je reconnais néanmoins un poinçon liégeois comme :

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

LE ou LF ? : Il s’agit vraisemblablement d’une marque de fabricant liégeois à la lecture incertaine.

 

Le Qui est Qui de l’Armurerie liégeois ne donne rien pour L.E et pour L.F. il donne FABRY Lambert place Licour, 628 à HERSTAL, lequel dépose 4 brevets d’invention de 1888 à 1895. Aucune certitude cependant !

 

FG : marque d’un sous-traitant non identifié ?

 

5293 : numéro de série.

 

GG

 

Identification 2586

 

Revolver (Top Break) with crack of the type S&W to central percussion. The cylinder is with five shots of unspecified gauge and not communicated. The barrel is round. It carries his round front sight far from the mouth, this to possibly make it possible to recut this one to facilitate the setting out of pocket. The trigger without trigger guard is slightly curved and is folded back under the breech. The opening (crack) of the weapon is practiced using the double squared button placed in top of the breech and to draw upwards. The hammer of the hammerless type is dissimulated in the carcass. The grips are out of ebony or false-ebony and maintained by a central screw.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of LIEGE, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

J*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

A figure 2 seem-you it, partially unobtrusive which could be the classification of the weapon.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

MR. F crowned: mark manufacturing FLIEGENSCHMIDT max, street of the Fish pond, 30 in LIEGE. The interested party was registered with the bench of tests of 1888) 1908. He was titular of a patent d' for improvements with the revolvers and of 3 trademarks.

 

NR. LEDENT: mark of the subcontractor Christmas LEDENT of LIEGE-BARCHON. It was titular of a patent gone back to 1886 and bearing on a stop of striker applicable to the revolvers.

 

GG

 

Identification 2587

 

Not obvious to identify a weapon without a photograph of the complete weapon!!

I think that it is about a rifle flintlock. The lock is of type “ahead” and the hammer “in heart”. The small basin is contiguous to the battery. The trigger is right under trigger guard. Against lock is with two screws. The stock seems to be out of wood of walnut.

I did not note any punch of the proofhouse of LIEGE.

 

The weapon carries the following marks:

 

Crowned M.L: it is about the trademark of Manufacture Liégeoise d’Armes à Feu (Manufacture of Liège Firearm), street of Vertbois, 52-54 in LIEGE. This firm was registered with the proofhouse  of 1866 to 1929. (See historical on the site).

 

Letters C, B, A, P in several places of the weapon, they are probably punches of controllers of manufacture.

 

Bee carrying the letters G and L on the wings (on wood): it is about the mark of George LALOUX manufacturer of weapons, street of Town planners 3 in LIEGE which was registered with the proofhouse of 1910 to 1950. It is most probably about a mark of retailer (second hand weapon?)

 

GG

 

Identification 2588

 

It is about a rifle with breech of the type WARNANT. Gauges it (not communicated) can-to be 22L? This breech WARNANT is raised using the lever placed on the right breech. By opening the breech makes move back the system of maintenance of the cartridge and conversely. The hammer should be of percussion type annular non visible on the photographs. The trigger curved with trigger guard is with volutes. The barrel is with eight sides with a system of aiming bead front sight. The stick out of wooden of walnut is worked with English with sculptures of vineleaves at various places. The cap is on return with engravings.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: punches of final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

U crowned: punch of the controller, of use of 1852 to 1877.

 

The weapon also carries mark G.MARIETTE PATENTS indicating that it is about a weapon invented (partially) by Guillaume MARIETTE manufacturer with LIEGE-CHERATTE (see the site for the history).

 

PS: I indicate that it is about a weapon of Guillaume Mariette and not of Gilles MARIETTE which was his/her brother and who signed his complete first name! There was often on the weapons of this a lion drawn up supporting a shield what is not the case here.

 

GG

 

Identification 2589

 

It is about a modern counterpart of a flintlock pistol with black powder manufactured in years 1950/60 by the Fabrique d’armes unies de LIEGE.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of Liege attesting that it can draw with black powder.

 

ELG* in a vertical oval (star with 5 branches): “Barrels black powder” punch of use of 1893 to our days.

 

U*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

16.8: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries the trademark CENTAURE LIEGE Belgium - MADE IN BELGIUM attesting of its origin of Liège and the Fabrique d’armes unies de LIEGE street Trappé, 22 in LIEGE (see more information on the site).

 

Mark F.A.U.L was deposited by the arms manufacturer Emile HANQUET street Charles Morren, 24 in LIEGE the 30.05.1913.

 

The production of this company ceased in 1976 but continued the activity of wholesaler until 1992.

 

GG

 

Identification 2591

 

It is about a shotgun to external hammers and to break opens thanks to the key of opening “Top Lever”. The unrifled bores of gauge 12 are juxtaposed. Locks are of type “ahead”. The stick in walnut is worked “with English”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

T* and V*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

12C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

D= 70 m/m /20.6: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the powder without smoke. In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

P1K509,7: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) Of use of 1892 to 1924.

 

CHOKE 17.4/18.4: choke barrels: gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

The other marks are:

 

Ste Ame (Société anonyme = Limited company) Marcel DONCKIER and DONCKIER LIEGE: they are the marks of the manufacturer Marcel DONCKIER (BE 1898/1903) Passage Lemonnier, 13 in LIEGE. It changes then corporate name to become in 1903 DONCKIER Marcel S.A. (1903/1938) In 1938, it joins BURY, Jules until 1947.

 

JSC in an oval: unknown. It is most probably about a manufacturer of barrels of rifles.

 

GG

 

Sketch of an engraving of Donckier

One page of a catalogue Donckier

 

Identification 2595

 

Il s’agit à n’en pas douter d’un revolver de guerre produit par l’armurerie liégeoise comme en témoignent les poinçons du banc d’épreuves ci-dessous :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

T* : contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

 

Les armuriers parisiens étaient nombreux à se fournir à LIEGE en raison des prix attractifs et la qualité de la production. C’est le cas avec H. FAURE LE PAGE A PARIS dont le nom est gravé sur le canon de cette arme de guerre.

Le canon est à pans avec guidon rectangulaire. Il est très vraisemblablement rayé. Le calibre n’est pas indiqué !

Le chien à rebondissement est de type WARNANT. Une sûreté manuelle est fixée au flanc droit.

Le barillet (6 coups ?) est alvéolé.

La baguette d’éjection coulisse dans un logement pour l’éjection des douilles une par une.

La crosse (en bois ?) est finement quadrillée. Elle se termine par un anneau de calotte et sa vis-pivot.

Le fabricant liégeois n’a laissé aucune marque permettant de l’identifier, cela était vraisemblablement le souhait de FAURé Le Page !

 

GG

 

Identification 2596

 

The state oxidized of this weapon does not facilitate the identification; I think nevertheless that it could be a question of a revolver model 1869 of Albert SPIRLET, quay of Boverie, 31 A LIEGE which was the author of 16 patents of 1860 to 1876.

This revolver is with smooth cylinder with six shots (Calibre not communicated). The barrel is with eight sides, with bead out of U and front sight in half-moon. The system of opening of the weapon consists of a push-button placed in front of the trigger guard. Once actuated it releases the cylinder-barrel unit to the top (tip-up) while swivelling on the notch of aiming.

 

Considering its state, no punch of tests is visible on this part. A mark however could remain readable, namely:

 

PRIX DU GOUVERNEMENT (PRICE OF THE GOVERNMENT): It is probably about the Belgian government? Many contests of shootings often encouraged by the State were organized in Belgium in second half of the 19th century. It is here most probably about one 1st price of shooting.

 

Patent SPIRLET corresponding to this weapon could be N° 26.602 of the 19.11.1869.

 

The weapon carried at the beginning a beautiful Damas to the fine gold which suffered well with the time.

 

GG

 

Identification 2598

 

It is about a rifle of small hunting of the hammerless type. The lock is square. The trigger is double under trigger guard. The key of opening is of type “Top lever” followed by a safety to slide of the Galand type.

The stick “pistol” seems to be in walnut with metal buttplate.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhoused of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

V* and O*: countermarks of the inspectors post 1877.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

12-70 in an omega lying: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

Greek letter Ni (seem it?) yearly letter of 1953. To check!

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

41045: number of the weapon.

 

F. DUMOULIN & Co LIEGE: mark factory of weapons François DUMOULIN & Co in LIEGE street Thier of the fountain, 2. The company was registered with the bench of tests inhabitant of Liège of 1908 to 1968.

 

GG

 

Identification 2600

 

Il s’agit bien d’un fusil de chasse mon-canon liégeois. La platine est de style REMINGTON. Ce modèle a souvent été copié par les armuriers liégeois notamment NAGANT Frères et pour le fusil « HUBERTUS ».

 

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

12C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

J et A * : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

D= 70 m/m / 20.6 : longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1892 à 1924.

 

L’arme porte également la marque de fabrique L D dans un ovale, laquelle à mon sens devrait appartenir au fabricant d’armes liégeois De Brus Louis, rue Hors-Château, 128 à LIEGE de 1903 à 1905 avec 6 brevets à son actif. Il devient ensuite De Brus & Cie rue de Fragnée, 41 à Liège jusqu’en 1937.

 

Annexe :

 Logo Louis De Brus

 

Une carte postale de De Brus Louis datée de 1905.

 

1 page d’un catalogue de la Manufacture liégeoise.

 

GG

 

Identification 2601

 

It is about a shotgun to juxtaposed barrels, in table, of gauge 12. Locks are “ahead” and the hammers are “external”. The opening (or crack) is made using a key “Top lever”. The stick is in walnut of type “pistol” seem it (photo incomplete).

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of tests of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

AE*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

12-70 in the letter omega: gauges nominal and length of the casing, of use of 1924 to our days?

 

1KG 464: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

“f” in small letter: yearly letter of 1927. Year of manufacture of your weapon.

 

18.4: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use of 1924 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

2032: classification of the weapon.

 

FABRIQUE NATIONALE D’ARMES DE GUERRE HERSTAL Belgique: mark of factory of the FN of Herstal (Liege). See the website.

 

FN in a circle: mark of factory of this company.

 

GG

 

Identification 2602

 

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type. The lock is square. The unrifled bores of gauge 12 are juxtaposed. The stick of walnut is cut way “pistol”. The forearm is with push rod.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the profhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

AD*: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

12-65 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

Choke 18.4 18.3: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech, of use of 1924 to 1968.

 

1KG 336: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Small letter “f”: yearly letter of 1927.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

D crowned: mark of the manufacturer of guns of rifles DELCOUR-DUPONT to NESSONVAUX.

 

139: classification of rifle?

 

GOVERNMENT TESTED FOR SNI???. POWDER: powders tested by the government?? (Illegible Photograph!!)

 

105235 231 and 3 L0 10: ignored significance?

 

The manufacturer of Liège did not leave any mark allowing identifying it as it was often the case.

 

GG

 

Identification 2604

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil chasse hammerless TOP LEVER. Les canons juxtaposés et lisses sont de calibre 16-70, ils sont réunis par une bande guillochée. La sûreté à glissière est de type GALAND (1886). La longuesse est à poussoir. La bascule est carrée. La crosse en bois de noyer est de type « pistolet ».

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves liégeois, soit :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

R et T * : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

Choke 17.0 : canons chokés, calibrés à 22 cm de la culasse. En usage de 1924 à 1968.

16-70 dans un oméga couché : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de1898 à 1968.

1Kg 380 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

Lettre minuscule « g » : lettre annale de 1928.

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

24280 : numéro de l’arme.

L.B dans un ovale horizontal : marque du fabricant de canons de fusils LAMBERT & BRUYNINCK à LIEGE.

Le fabricant de l’arme n’ayant laissé aucune marque restera inconnu !

GG

 

Identification 2609

 

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type top break and central percussion. Back action lock. The opening is practiced using the key Top Lever placed at the top of the breech. The barrels smooth, of gauge 16 and are juxtaposed. The stock is of “pistol” type. The forearm seem me to be with push rod?

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

S*: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

16 in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

E.L in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Choke 16.4/17.0 and 17.1/17.0: chokes barrels: gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

2105: job number.

 

RAICK LIEGE BROTHERS: Manufacturers RAICK Brothers, street Jonfosse, 72 in LIEGE since 1905. They were still in the professional directory of Liège in 1950. (See the site).

 

EAGLE on terrestrial sphere: This mark does not appear in the list of marks RAICK BROTHERS. GENSCHOW and Co in LIEGE present a mark similar to share which the head of the eagle was other side?? Afflicted not to be more precise.

 

GG

 

Identification 2610

 

It is about a rifle with percussion and black powder mono barrel. This last is with smooth! The rod of loading out of iron is articulated. The band around the barrel is out of brass. The barrel is provided with a rise with cursor seem-you it (seen incomplete) and with a front sight in half-moon.

 

The stick in wood is worked “with English”.

 

The lock carries a trademark of Liège, namely DRESSE-ANCION-LALOUX & Co à LIEGE. This transitory company did exist only of 1862 to 1866 before being replaced by Old Factory DRESSE-LALOUX (1867/1908) street On the fountain, 47 in LIEGE.

 

The weapon carries a punch of the proofhouse of LIEGE ; C crowned which is the countermark of an inspector of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

The other marks are (so well read) O.M. in a circle is unknown for me. 45000 (figures in overload?) struck the stick is perhaps a job number. The letter M is probably a mark of workshop.

 

Afflicted to be able to be more precise.

 

GG

 

Identification 2611

 

It is unquestionably a flint lock pistol of origin of Liège as the punch of tests of Liège ELG* in a vertical oval indicates it. This punch was of use of 1846 to 1893. The presence of a punch of English test (crowned GR) indicates that this weapon was accepted on the other side of the channel. However the mark TOWER and the English royal crown do not state that it is about an English weapon.

 

Arms manufacture of Liège from time immemorial produced weapons of all kinds and for all destinations without being concerned with copy one or the other mark of the country of origin. It is here the case seem-you it?

 

This flintlock pistol is equipped with an unrifled bore (gauges?), of a lock said “ahead” and of counter lock to two brass screws. The rod is articulated. The stick seems to be in walnut. The cap with ears is smooth.

 

The F crowned could be a punch of tests of Liège, the countermark of a controller of the proofhouse of Liege valid of 1853 to 1877.

 

GG

 

Identification 2612 - 2613 - 2614

 

These 3 identifications for the same applicant are joined together because it is about the same type of weapons of Liège of exports.

 

ID 2612

 

Flintlock pistol mono-barrel with long barrel. The rod is with beam, it locks is round, the hammer in “heart”. The unrifled bore is round with front sight in half-moon. Counter lock is with two screws. The trigger guard and the cap are also out of brass.

 

The weapon carries punch ELG* in a vertical oval proof that the weapon was tested in LIEGE between 1818 and 1893.

 

The 4 oblique bars (in a direction or the other) are “marks of équipeurs” of Liège.

 

The mark resembling at 2 C reversed and joined is unknown for me.

 

It carries also two foreign punches is crowned GR. meaning GEORGE King III. The second is a kind of X crowned which is a mark of French acceptance for the machines compared to the weapons. It seems that these punches are definitely posterior with the manufacture of the weapon.

 

ID 2613

 

It is about the same type of pistol TOWER mono barrel flintlock as the precedent. Its description for more or less identical to the preceding one. The English punch and the French punch have the same significance.

 

ID 2614

 

Here also the same type of weapon flintlock. Same punches also if it is not the letter G twice repeated and who could be a mark of workshop and the letters ND (read so well?) who are also unknown for me.

Here thus three guns with flint English kind (TOWER) manufactured in LIEGE for export. That explains the absence of mark of the manufacturer of Liège.

 

GG

 

Here is one of the mark on your weapon

 

Identification 2615

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse de type LEFAUCHEUX. Les canons à âme lisse sont juxtaposés. Le système d’ouverture/fermeture à deux clés est spécifiquement d’origine Lefaucheux. Les deux platines gravées sont de type « en arrière ». Les chiens plats sont en forme de dauphins. Le pontet est à volutes, il protège les deux détentes. La crosse (de noyer ?) est de forme anglaise.

 

L’arme présente peu de poinçons d’épreuves sinon :

 

EL en lettres anglaises (BE Liège) : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

15,2 : calibre en mm, en usage de 1889 à nos jours. Il pourrait correspondre au calibre 24.

 

L’arme présente également les marques suivantes :

 

MD – DA : il s’agit vraisemblablement de marques de sous-traitants non identifiés.

 

3694 – 4475 – 1912 : signification incertaine, numéro de série ou autres ??

 

L’industrie armurière liégeoise a été très prolifique en ce qui concerne la copie d’armes Lefaucheux de toutes sortes (longues et courtes). LEFAUCHEUX lui-même a possédé une usine de 1867 à 1872 située à LIEGE rue de Fragnée, n° 13. (Voir notre site).

 

GG

 

Identification 2616

 

It is about a shotgun of origin of Liège as the punches testify some described below. The weapon is with central percussion, top break with Damascus barrels smooth of gauge 12 juxtaposed. The lock is square and hammerless (hidden hammers) the forearm seems to be with push rod.

The weapon carries an engraving of the type “to bouquets”. A gold crown is included on the trigger guard.

 

Punches

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

12C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

V and T *: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

1K423.2: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram. In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

D= 65/20.6: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the powder without smoke. In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

CHOKE 17.4/18.5 and 18.2/18.5: chokes barrels: gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1898 to 1910.

 

MAX 02GR 70 powder -) 36 GR. leads: loads for powder without smoke, of use of 1897 to 1903.

 

This last punch gives us a precise idea of the age of the weapon is between 1897 and 1903.

 

Markings

 

P T spangled: mark of a manufacturer of Liège not identified. It could possibly be a question of THOLET, Pierre (1906?) in LIEGE.

H. PLATES ARMS MANUFACTURER STREET?????: Mark added on the central tape of the barrels by the arms manufacturer (French) retailer of the weapon.

 

This rifle manufactured between 1897 and 1903 “still seems” in good condition, however it is impossible for me only on photographs to judge if it is still suited to the shooting. A visit in a graduate arms manufacturer would be desirable if you wish to avoid possible the nasty surprises.

 

GG

 

Identification 2617

 

It is about a rifle top break of small hunting. The juxtaposed smooth bores are of gauge 16. Locks are of type “ahead”, the hammers with central percussion are “external”. The forearm is with pump. The oval trigger guard protects the two triggers. The stick with cheek is of type “Pistol”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

m* and q*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

D = 65 m/m/18.2: length of chambers in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the powder without smoke. In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

CHOKE 16.9/17.0: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

1K274, 7: Weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (smooth weapons). In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

16 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

The weapon carries also various marks, such as:

 

EPROUVE A LA POUDRE PYROXILEE (TEST WITH POWDER PYROXILEE): tested with the modern powder!

 

LG15: unknown significance.

 

1926 CF: it is probably about a mark left by under treating not identified just like the preceding mark.

 

GG

 

Identification 2618

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de petite chasse à platine hammerless et ouverture à l’aide d’une clé dite « top lever ». Une sûreté à glissière de type GALAND est posée derrière la clé top. La platine est carré : Les canons lisses sont juxtaposés et de calibre 12. La crosse en noyer est de type pistolet. Le pontet ovale protège les deux détentes.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

Z* et N* : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

12-70 dans un oméga couché : calibre nominal et longueur de douille, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

CHOKE 18.3 : canons chokés, calibrés à 22 cm de la culasse. En usage de 1924 à 1968.

 

1K448 : poids du canon  pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

L’arme porte également différentes marques sauf celle du fabricant liégeois malheureusement. Les marques sont :

 

133420 : il s’agit vraisemblablement du numéro de série de l’arme.

 

TG (sur les canons) : Il s’agit peut-être d’une marque laissé par le fabricant de canons ?

 

D16 : peut-être une marque d’atelier dont la signification s’est perdue ?

 

GG

 

Fourchette de date de fabrication : entre 1924 et 1968

 

Identification 2619

 

Your photographs are fuzzy and dark but here what I could withdraw.

It is about a rifle of small game. The side by side barrels are of gauge 15,8 mm. The forearm is with button. The hammers are external and lock is back action (I think?). The opening is practiced using the key “Top lever” placed at the top of breech. The stick in walnut is of form “Pistol”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of tests of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

S*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

15,8: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

Mark of the manufacturer: nothing. Was no trademark discovered on the photographs? The origin is of Liège without more. These weapons were intended for export and often the purchasers wished that the weapon is virgin of inscription to put their own mark at it!

 

110744: number of the weapon.

 

GG

 

P.S.: It is not a question of any case of a rifle of the FN Browning!!

 

Identification 2620

 

Il s’agit ici d’un très classique revolver, de marque Lefaucheux à broches fabriqué à LIEGE. Le barillet lisse est à 6 coups et est cranté pour recevoir les broches. Le canon rayé est rond avec un guidon triangulaire. Le cran de mire devrait être creusé dans la tête du chien (non visible sur les photos). La détente est lisse et courbe, sous pontet. La portière de chargement sur le flan droit est manquante. Les crossettes sont en bois genre ébène lisse et maintenues par une vis centrale et deux rosettes. Une baguette métallique simple est glissée sous le canon. L’arme porte une gravure assez simple représentant du feuillage.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

La lettre du contrôleur n’est pas visible sur les photos.

 

Elle porte également les marques suivantes :

 

EL couronné: il  s’agit de la marque de l’entreprise d’Eugène LEFAUCHEUX quai de Fragnée, 13 à Liège qui a été opérationnelle de 1867 à 1873.

 

159899 : (si bien lu) : il s’agit d’un numéro de série.

 

GG

 

Identification 2621

 

It is acted in fact of a lawful revolver NAGANT model 1878 in the Belgian customs. The detail of this weapon is on page NAGANT of our website.

 

Punches

 

Proofhouse of LIEGE: ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893. With your question, the weapon goes back before 1898.

 

Manufacture d’armes de l’Etat rue Saint Léonard à LIEGE : (Manufactory of the State street Léonard Saint in LIEGE):

 

EGB* in a vertical oval: test of the Belgian government.

 

L II in a circle: mark Belgian government (two L interlaced = Léopold II) It is reproduced only on revolvers NAGANT 1878 and 1878-86 of the army and the Belgian customs.

 

JB in an overcome oval of a crown: mark tests of manufacture.

 

A in a circle: punch of a controller of manufacture.

 

DOUANE BELGE (BELGIAN CUSTOMS): marking allotting the weapon to the customs.

 

1092: classification of the weapon.

 

BREVET (PATENT) NAGANT: mark factory NAGANT in LIEGE present on all rifles and revolvers of the firm.

 

GG

 

Identification 2622

 

It is about a rifle of small game, with central percussion and two unrifled bores side by side of gauge 16. The two hammers are external and the key of opening (top lever) placed behind those. The stick out of wooden of walnut is of type “pistol”. The weapon carries an animalist engraving and of foliage.

 

It carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

F and W spangled: countermarks of the controllers post 1877.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

16C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

17,0: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1898 to 1910.

 

Peron: inspection. In use of 1853 to our days.

 

The weapon does not carry any mark of manufacturer!

 

It carries nevertheless following markings:

 

300: number of the weapon??

 

DLH: marks not very readable, could belong to a manufacturer of barrel?

 

GG

 

Identification 2623

 

Il s’agit d’une carabine dite « de jardin » à un coup à percussion annulaire aussi dénommée « carabine Leclercq ». Elle était fabriquée en 9, 12 et 14 mm. Le canon rayé est octogonal. Celui-ci tombe vers l’avant lorsque la clé dite « serpent » est pressée. Cela permet alors le chargement/déchargement grâce à l’extracteur qui éjecte partiellement la douille. Le canon présente un cran de mire réglable à 125 et 225 mètres. Ce canon est notamment fixé par tiroir à travers la longuesse. La crosse en bois de noyer est de type « pistolet ».

 

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

S* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

225 mètres et 125 mètres sur le cran de mire : distances de visée.

 

LH sur le canon : fabricant du canon ??

 

JL : inconnu ? Sous traitant ??

 

GG

 

Identification 2627

 

It is about a revolver with vertical percussion called “pinfire” of Lefaucheux type. The barrel is with 8 sides, it carries a front sight and a bead raised to allow an aiming the top of the armed hammer! The rod is of type “nail”. The barrel seems to be out of bronze and with 6 shots. It is engraved reasons “foliage”. The hammer is with head punt to strike the pins exceeding of the notches of the cylinder. The carcass also carries an engraving of the type “foliage”. The stick consist of two bakelite grips (?)joined together by a screw and two rivet washers. It ends in a cap with ring and screw-pivot.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:0

 

ELG * in an oval vertical: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

N crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of December 30, 1853 to January 26, 1877.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Crowned LF: it is about the trademark of the factory Eugene Lefaucheux, located in Liege street from Fragnée, 13 of 1867 to 1873.

 

Crowned AF: mark FRANCOTTE, Auguste, street Holy Mont Martin, 65. (See the site). It collaborated with Lefaucheux on several occasions.

 

It could be a question here of a weapon produced by Lefaucheux for Francotte which probably dealt with the sale?

 

58897: classification of the weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2628

 

It is about a shotgun of hammerless type to square locks. The barrels are juxtaposed and smooth of gauge 12. The weapon downwards opens using the key “Top lever” placed behind the breech. The weapon is equipped with a forearm with push-button. The stick out of wooden of walnut is worked “with English”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

V* and X*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Stylized lion overcoming mention MULLER N° 1: optional test with the powder without smoke MULLER N°1. In use of 1891 to 1968.

 

P1K109.0: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (smooth weapons). In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

CHOKE 16.5/17.0 - 16.2/17.0: (marks not very readable) chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of the 25.02.1910 to the 30.06.1924.

 

The weapon also carries the mark of its manufacturer, namely Jules BURY arquebusier in LIEGE, passage Lemonnier, 11 of 1896 with 1947. It founded establishments BURY-DONCKIER 11-13 Lemonnier passage in LIEGE of 1947 at 1964. This establishment had been made a speciality of the weapons and ammunition of huntings, rifles double and rifles with 3 shots. In 1964, the company will be taken again by Charles Masquelier.

GG

 

Identification 2632

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de petite chasse à percussion centrale. Les deux canons de calibre 16 sont juxtaposés et lisses. L’ouverture (brisure) se pratique à l’aide de la clé « top lever » placée devant les chambres. L’arme dispose également d’une sûreté de type « Galand ». La platine est dite « carrée ».La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée « à l’anglaise ».

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive de 1893 à 1968.

 

16C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

A et S étoilés : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage  de 1898 à 1968.

 

Choke 16.9 : canons chokés, calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse. En usage de 1924 à 1968.

 

P1K323 : Poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

D = 70 mm / 18.9 : longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1892 au 30 juin 1924.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

18462 : numéro de série apposé par le fabricant.

 

Une lettre peu lisible (G ?) est frappée (2x) sur les canons, il pourrait s’agir d’une lettre annale mais sans certitude.

 

GG

 

Identification 2633

 

It is here about a revolver top break of the type S&W and of Liège manufacture. The opening or “crack” is practiced by actuating a button placed in top of the weapon. The cylinder is with 5 blows and the gauges was not communicated to me. The plates seem me to be out of ebonite squared ?

 

This part carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

L*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

C crowned: mark of a manufacturer of barrel not identified.

 

The weapon also carries a mark (8.400) which I think of being a serial number.

Figure 11 could be a classification of workshop.

Marks JJ - NR ringed - probably belong to not identified subcontractors. Those never were the subject of a specific research. If we know a number of subcontractors how to connect them to one or the other mark?

This type of revolver, copies of a famous American mark, was manufactured in great number by several tens of arms manufacturers of Liège. Some were duly authorized and others not!

GG

 

Identification 2634

 

It is about a revolver of the type “bulldog” of of Liège manufacture. The long barrel (?) is alveolate and by lack of information I could not determine the gauge (.320?). The loading is practiced by the door placed on the right side of the weapon. The barrel is round with front sight in half-moon. The rod is articulated. The trigger guard is with rest-fingers. The plates seem me to be out of bakelite.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

AF*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

FRONTIER: mark not included in the collections of marks of Liège. Many of these marks were often whimsical.

 

JC LLC ID: (read so well?) marks of subcontractors.

 

6: classification of the weapon?

 

In short, a type of weapons very running in arms manufacture of Liège. The absence of a trademark is very frequent for the weapons of export at low prices.

 

GG

 

Identification 2635

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver de poche à cadre fermé de type  bull-dog ou puppy suivant sa taille. Le calibre est de 320. Le canon court et rayé est rond avec cran de mire et guidon en demi-lune. La portière sur le flanc droit est destinée à permettre le chargement/déchargement des munitions de 320. L’arme est dotée d’une baguette pivotante sur un axe, elle doit être introduite tour à tour dans les alvéoles du barillet (6 coups) pour le déchargement des douilles. La détente est courbe sans pontet. Elle se replie sous la carcasse pour faciliter la mise en poche. Les crossettes en bois noirci (noyer ?) sont quadrillées et fixées à l’aide d’une vis centrale.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

C* : Contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

C couronné : vraisemblablement une marque de fondeur de barillet ?

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

EW sous étoile : il s’agit de la marque du fabricant d’armes Emile WARNANT rue Lamarck, 99 à LIEGE. Il fut inscrit au banc d’épreuves de 1911 à 1934. Il est le dépositaire de 4 brevets d’inventions. 

Le chiffre 2 pourrait être le numéro de série de l’arme ?

DETILLOUX sur un montant de crosse pourrait être une marque de sous-traitant. La liste de ceux-ci n’a jamais été formellement établie malheureusement.

GG

 

Identification 2636

 

 

Antonio Errasti, manufacturer of this tilting revolver Nagant.

 

Having been a workman of “Tomás de Urizar y CIA”, it is established for its account in 1904 and is increasing its personnel to the first world war.

 

It records marks BROWGRAND and BROWPETIT in 1908.

It also manufactures small Puppy and Velodog.

It also manufactures French Bodeo Italian 1884 and revolver MOD 1892 (Nº40220 license)

 

During the first War it manufactures automatics in 6,35 and 7,65.

On these weapons, the logo is an alternative of its anagram A.E., included in an oval under a royal crown.

 

It does not appear among the 14 manufacturers who in 1912 meet in Eibar to face the threats of the FN, which wanted to finish some with the Spanish production of guns which violate the licenses Browning.

 

This Antonio Errasti has nothing to do with the other manufacturer of the same name which tried to license the guns “Errasti”.

 

Our A.E solicits into 1922 marks BRONCHO and GOLIAT.

In 1926 solicits like marks the anagram of the initial G.H.D. between 2 lions, in 1929 mark DREADNAUGHT.

 

It appears among the manufacturers associated with the property with the proofhouse with Eibar.

 

In 1929, it manufactures ONLY various oscillating revolvers and automatics.

 

In one of its catalogs, dated from the années1920, it offered a copy of the revolver Nagant 1895 for cartridges gauges 7,62 and revolvers BROWPETIT and BROWGRAND into 6,35 and 7,65

 

In its offer of oscillating revolvers, it uses the mark OICET, which combines in a curious model the esthetic details of the Colt and S&W, with the originality of the button of release of the barrel, located on the attaching part of its axis, according to its license Nº 53726.

 

It uses mark GOLIAT for its revolvers copies Colt “Positive”, and DREADNAUGHT for its revolvers based on the S&W “Military and Police”

 

Hogg and Weeks indicate also its mark SMITH AMERICANO, which, with the GOLIAT and DREADNAUGHT, for revolvers not easily comparable to exact copies of “Iver Johnson” and “Harrington & Richardson”

 

A.E is deceased beginning 1930. Its workshop appears in 1932 like “Widow and wire of Antonio Errasti”. They continue in industry until 1936.

 

They manufacture machine pistol MX 1935 gauges “9 largo”, marketed under mark GOLIAT, with a license of Shine Palomo Puyol in 1936, Nº 141037.

 

The workshop is destroyed in 1937 by a fire and an explosion.

 

I associate you what I found on the logos of stick “A.E.”, just as curious low a relief which is in Venice, and which St George represents. A curious resemblance to that of these splendid plates which I believe are in horn of buffalo.

 

The quoted revolver would be thus the Twenties, since Calvó quotes it in its article.

 

The plates are very very beautiful.

It is St George. Very resembling in that, Venice. (See illustration)

 

All that is in the very beautiful book of J.L. Calvó “Industria Will arm Nacional 1830-1940 - Fabricas, Privilegios, Patentes y Marcas.”

 

Receive my friendships.

Cordially

Roberto

 

Identification 2642

 

Il s’agit d’une copie liégeoise de la carabine COLT 1853 Sidehammer mieux décrite sur le site. L’arme porte les poinçons d’épreuves liégeois suivants :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

H* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

14,4 : calibre en mm, en usage de 1889 à nos  jours.

 

11812 : numéro de série.

 

L’arme porte également deux poinçons de l’épreuve britannique, à savoir :

 

V couronné : inspection après épreuve.

 

GP couronné : gunmaker company.

 

Enfin la marque de fabrique partiellement effacée COLT’S PATENTED ……. Indique que l’arme pourrait avoir été fabriquée par un armurier liégeois agréé par Samuel COLT mais rien n’est moins sûr, de nombreuses copies illicites ayant été fabriquées à Liège.

 

GG

 

Identification 2647

 

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type. The barrels are juxtaposed and of gauge 16. The forearm is probably with push rod (nonvisible on the photographs!) The system of opening to crack is of type “top lever”. The stick in walnut is worked with English.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Q* (Not P): countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

16-70 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1897 to 1968.

 

Letter g into tiny: yearly letter of 1928 (NOT 1968). 1968 is g with underline.

 

1 K 304: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

Other marks also on the weapon, is:

 

13643: number of the weapon.

 

CM in a rectangle with the ends rounded: probably the mark of a subcontractor?

 

Manufactory AKAH - LIEGE: this mark belongs to the wholesaler out of weapons ALBRECHT KIND installed with HUNSTIC (D) since the 24.09.1853.

 

GG

 

The mark AKAH is thus German, not Belgian, and the Belgian manufacturer is perhaps CM but one is unaware of who it is!!

AKAH is only the retailer.

 

Identification 2650

La réponse de Mr Juan Luis Calvó, expert mondial en la matière.

 

A juzgar por la longitud del cañón, se trata de una carabina de Marina, modelo del año 1847, que en el papel tiene un cañón longitud 780 mm, pero su calibre ha de ser "de a 17" (18 mm); si el diámetro del ánima es de 19 mm (calibre de a 15), se tratará de un modelo irregular, de la clase de recomposición. No puede ser carabina de cornetas Md. 1851, su cañón sería 706 mm. Ha de tratarse de un arma con cañón de ánima lisa, las alzas de corredera, planchuela etc son para armas rayadas... La O coronada es de la Fca de Oviedo, y el nombre corresponde al artesano, no a Elorza.

Saludos, JLC

 

 

Je traduis.

Par la longueur du canon, il s'agit d'une carabine de Marine, modèle 1847, qui sur le papier a une longueur de canon de 780 mm, mais son calibre devrait être "à 17" (18 mm); si le diamètre de l'âme est de 19mm, (calibre à 15), il s'agit alors d'un modèle irrégulier, de la classe de recomposition. (= de remontage, ou Rework.  NDLR)

Il ne peut s'agir d'une carabine pour trompettes de régiment Md 1851, son canon serait de 706 mm.

Il doit s'agir d'une arme à canon lisse, car les hausses sont pour les armes rayées....

Le "O " couronné appartient à l'arsenal de Oviedo, et le nom ( FRANCISCO) correspond à l'artisan, pas au Brigadier Géneral Elorza, directuer de l'arsenal à cette époque.

Amitiés, JLC.

 

Le dernier livre de Juan Luis Calvó

"ARMAMENTOS DE MUNICIÓN EN LAS FUERZAS ARMADAS ESPAÑOLAS - Producción de antecarga 1700 - 1873 "   ISBN 84-609-0005-3

 

Identification 2652

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver de type « bulldog » très courant dans l’industrie armurière liégeoise. Le barillet est à 6 coups en calibre 320. Une sûreté bien inutile sur un revolver est placée sur le flanc arrière gauche. Ce type de sûreté était fort apprécié des clients allemands. Le canon court et rond porte un guidon rectangulaire. La détente articulée n’est pas protégée d’un pontet. Elle se replie sous le bâti pour faciliter la mise en poche. La crosse métallique est recouverte de deux plaquettes (noyer ?) quadrillées avec vis centrale de fixation.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

T* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

 

L’arme ne porte aucune marque de fabrique comme cela était souvent le cas pour les armes liégeoises courantes et destinées à l’exportation.

 

L’arme porte néanmoins les marques suivantes :

 

Calibre 320 C  qui est l’indication du calibre de l’arme.

 

Chiffre 8 en plusieurs en droit : il s’agirait du n° de l’arme.

 

DF sur un montant métallique de crosse : il s’agirait de la marque d’un sous-traitant non identifiable.

 

GG

 

Identification 2653

 

The weapon

 

It is about a shotgun to juxtaposed barrels with central percussion and external hammerss. Locks are of type “behind” nicely engraved floral and animalist reasons.

The opening of the weapon is practiced using the key of trigger guard.

The juxtaposed barrels are in Damas

 

Markings

 

EB crowned in an oval: mark manufacturing (barrels?).

 

Perron: punch of inspection (1853 at our days) of the profhouse of Liege.

 

Spangled ELG in an oval: acceptance of the test of Liège, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

The last not easily readable mark can-to be the letter Q joined with C under crown? This mark is unknown for me.

 

The manufacturer

 

I count 15 arms manufacturers carrying the patronym of BERNARD, in Liege, at the 19th century.

I have an EMILE and a ERNEST but not of EUGENE?? The study of arms manufacture of Liège of the 19th century does not have anything an exact science because the traces which reach us in dispersed order and were the subject of no serious publication at the 20th century.

According to Jarlier, Bernard Henri Eugene was a manufacturer of barrels of rifle in Liege in 1840.

He announces himself by the registration of a trademark on January 18, 1862. I unfortunately could not discover more information on this craftsman?

The weapon is marked (barrel and lock) FLOBERT Bté to PARIS, it acts of course of the inventor of this weapon. Maintaining like determining which did what on this part. The barrels without question were manufactured in LIEGE, Bernard being a probably manufacturer of barrels of rifles. The punches of tests of Liège are visible ON the barrels and not elsewhere! I think that Flobert bought the barrels in Liege and manufactured the remainder of the weapon in Paris but that remains to prove?

 

GG

 

Identification 2654

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion. The two barrels in Damas are juxtaposed. The hammers are external. The gauge of the barrels is 17. 8 which correspond, I think, with the calibre 14. The opening/closing of this weapon is consisted a swivelling lever placed under the trigger guard. Locks are of type “behind”.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

X*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

17,8: gauge in mm (corresponds to the gauge 14) Of use of 1889 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries a mark which I think of being crowned GM. This mark is not included in the collection of the trademarks of Liège. I raised the arms manufacturers’ of Liège of the XIXe century who could correspond:

 

MASU G. active of 1876 to 1890.

 

MERCENIER G.J of Liege. 2 patents in 1874?

 

MERCENIER Gerard street of Trembler, 25 to BLEGNY. It deposits a patent for an extractor revolver independent of the barrel.

 

MERCENIER-GUIOT of Blegny. In 1868 it deposits a patent for a weapon with fire taking care by the breech with lock in the rocker.

 

MERLOT G. of Jupille. In 1886 it deposits a patent for a turntable of rifle.

 

MEYERS Guillaume de Cheratte. 4 patents deposited of 1887 to 1910.

 

MORDANT G. of Liege. Credit of 1850 to 1876. Deposit 3 patents.

 

The band connecting the barrels is also engraved DAMAS LONDON. It is about the type of Damas employed.

 

GG

 

The letter “S” placed at this place does not have any significance of year of manufacture!!

It is a marking of workshop without particular significance

The various punches of the proofhouse give a fork of date of manufacture of 1877 to 1893, nothing to see with the years 1940!!!

 

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2655

 

Il s'agit d'un pistolet breveté également en Belgique en 1908 par la firme Loh fils à Berlin, voir photo en annexe.

Ce pistolet était par exemple vendu par la firme Stukenbrock.

 

Amicalement

Dirk (Allemagne)

 

Note: le webmaster possède ces documents en grande résolution, si vous désirez on peut vous les faire parvenir.

 

Identification 2656

 

Il s’agit d’un très classique revolver à percussion d’origine liégeoise. De nombreux armuriers liégeois ont fabriqué ce type d’armes pour l’exportation.  Cela explique peut-être le fait que le présent revolver ne porte aucune marque de fabrique, uniquement les poinçons d’épreuves, à savoir :

 

ELG* non couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

Z couronné : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1853 à 1877, ce qui nous donne une période de fabrication plus restreinte que le précédent poinçon.

 

Il s’agit donc d’un six coups à percussion (cap and ball). Le barillet est lisse et porte une gravure comme la carcasse d’ailleurs. Une baguette de bourrage est fixée sur le flanc gauche du canon. Le canon lui-même est à huit pans. Il est fixé à la carcasse par une simple vis.

 

GG

 

Identification 2658

 

It is about a double shotgun to juxtaposed barrels. The two hammers are external. Two locks are known as “ahead”. The system of percussion is called “with percussion” because of the two chimneys to the back of the barrel, which must be covered with a starter. The trigger guard protects two triggers, a line and the other curves. The stick in walnut is worked “with English”.

 

The weapon does not carry any punch of tests. It dates according to me from 1830/1840 and the passage to the test was not yet systematic at the time.

 

The weapon carries the following marks:

 

TORDU (TWISTED): that means that the barrels were made out of steel “twisted” Damas way.

...... (Illegible) A PAGNIER: they are either the manufacturers of barrels or of the manufacturers of the weapon!

Unfortunately, my research is remained vain.

 

GG

 

Identification 2659

 

Shotgun hammerless to juxtaposed barrels and central percussion. Locks are of type “ahead”. The system of opening is with key “Top Lever”. Safety is with slide of the Galand type. The forearm is with push rod. The oval trigger guard protects the two curved triggers. The stick in walnut is worked “with English”. Engraving is known as “in rollers”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

AH* and T*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

12-65 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

Letter “o”: yearly letter of 1936.

 

18.4 Choke 18.2: chokes barrels: gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use of 1924 to 1968.

 

1Kg249: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

968: number of the weapon.

 

ACIER NICKEL (NICKEL-PLATED STEEL): type of steel used for the barrels.

 

RM engraved on the trigger guard: Probably initials of the 1st owner.

 

J. CH. MONISSE in LIEGE: mark of the manufacturer Jean Charles MONISSE street Renardi in LIEGE. Registered voter with the proofhouse of 1922 to 1951.

 

L. SMEETS: engraver of Liège represented on our website: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/graveurs/a%20smeets%20leonard.htm

 

GG

 

Identification 2666

 

It is about an army rifle of the hammerless type since all the system is embedded in the weapon itself. The system of percussion seems to be in the cylinder containing the cartridge and which thanks to a hinge placed at the rear of the barrel can be opened or closed again at will. The stick in walnut is worked with English and the wood is prolonged until the end of the barrel. It is interdependent of the barrel thanks to two “brassadelles” of brass. The metal rod is slipped between wood and barrel into a space spared to this end.

 

Punches of tests

 

I did not discover any punch of tests of Liège or others on this weapon??

 

Marks

 

1343CBC1874: it is probably about the classification of the weapon, the last 4 figures (1874) could be the date of manufacture or invention?

 

Charles ROBERT of Liege deposits in 1867/68 six Belgian patents in particular for a rifle undertaking by the breech and a system rifle undertaking by the breech by means of a copper cartridge (with GILLON Noël).

From 1871 to 1878, the company becomes ROBERT Charles & Co fabricants d’armes brevetés (manufacturers of weapons patented). This mark is struck to the stick. In 1878, the company is taken again by CHOUVEL R.

 

LM: mark probably subcontractor.

 

Nm on the stick: marks of the assembler with wood??

 

R.R. /F.E: marks unknown?

 

AA: marks unknown?

 

Patents

 

The present weapon is the subject of a patent (22483 of the 30.04.1868) bearing on the recording of this rifle. 4 patents of modifications of this weapon were then recorded of 1867 to 1868. They are the patents n° 22589 of the 16.10.1867, 22669 of the 31.10.1867, 23797 of the 15.07.1868 and 24488 of the 16.09.1868.

In appendix: sketch of the first patent.

 

GG

 

I can send you the 5 patents in high resolution (one original and 4 patent of improvement) if you wish it.

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2668

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion and box frame. The cylinder with 6 blows is alveolate.

The loading is practiced by the door placed on the right side of the weapon. It drops thanks to the action of an internal spring. A safety is placed on the side postpones left.

The rifled bore is round with trapezoidal front sight. It is hemmed in its end. The cylinder is grooved and comprises six rooms of gauge 10,5 mm ?

The grips in wood (Walnut?) is squared and are joined together by a transverse screw and two brass rivet washers. The stick ends in a ring-pivot and a ring.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG on star in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

C spangled: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

Other marks are also visible, that is to say:

 

L crowned: it could be a question of the mark of the foundry of barrels?

 

Crowned LS is most probably the mark of manufacturer LERUITTE-SMEETS Clémentine street Duvivier, 16 in LIEGE. (BE 1854/1892. (See the site). This mark was deposited in 1885.

 

Letters SM and L are unknown for me, it probably acts of marks of subcontractors.

 

8: most probably the number of the weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2670

 

L’identification faite par notre spécialiste Français est un peu “Brutale” mais elle a le mérite d’être sincère !!

Le Webmaster

Alain

 

 

Le canon .............type à masselotte prise de forge année 1842

Platine de mauvaise facture d'origine à silex - incompatible avec le canon car lui devrait avoir une platine arrière.

Chien à percussion - détente d'un fusil origine possible année 1717 !!!!

Pontet époque fin XIXème...........!!!

Quand au bois il s’agit d’un travail civil car trop fin pour ce genre d'arme !!!!

L'embouchoir est de ressemblance française, une des deux grenadière aussi, l'autre est d'origine anglaise.

Voila l’image interne d'une platine à silex 1777 pour comparaisons ....................!!!

 

 

L'absence de poinçons et marquages de manufacture le "classe" ""Ferraille"" sans valeurs !!!

 

@lain (France)

 

Identification 2671

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion of type “Bulldog” or “Puppy”. The weapon carries a light engraving to shells. The cylinder is with 5 blows of gauge 450. The barrel is round with front sight in half-moon. The plates out of wood of walnut are squared.

 

The weapon carries a double test, that is to say:

 

1° the test of Liège:

 

             F spangled: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

             R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

2° the test of Saint Etienne:

 

             Marks not very readable, I think of distinguishing a cross of Saint Andre and letters M.C.I? (without certainty). I did not find this mark in the lexicon of the marks of St Etienne?

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

ARMES ET CYCLES SAINT ETIENNE: the weapon having been manufactured in Liege, it will have been bought by the company of Saint-Etienne to belong to her well-known catalog!

 

450: it is probably about the gauge of the weapon.

 

3879: it is about the number of the weapon.

 

I don’t know the significance of the letter Greek pi !

 

GG

 

Identification 2672

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse mono-canon à clé serpent. L’arme est dans un état proche de l’Ohio et n’ai pas pu tout déchiffrer ou deviner ! Voici ce que j’ai pu en retirer. Il s’agit donc d’un fusil de fabrication liégeois avec les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de cette ville, soit :

G et E étoilés : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

18-70 dans la lettre oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

Perron (monument liégeois) : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

OKg774 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

L’arme porte également des marques partiellement effacées que je n’ai pu identifier comme :

OHO ….. ?

JLO ?

En annexe, une page du catalogue MASEREEL présentant le même type d’arme mais à canons doubles.

GG

 

Identification 2673

 

It is of course Spanish.

It’is a Puppy of Francisco Arizmendi, in caliber.320.

Here we let us call them “Chalequero” (which goes in a pocket of the interior of the waistcoat) and quite recognizable with the logo with the half moon and star.

It is about the one of the alternatives of the logo of F.A.

It is quite former to 1927, date of the test of Eibar.

I would locate it some share between the beginning of the century and the end of the Large War.

Although these revolvers were manufactured until in the Thirties of the XX eme century.

It carries the grenade with flame, with the P of “Pistola” (Pistole), which is completely inaccurate. It should appear a “R” in the grenade. It was very frequent.

I saw not badly revolvers with the P. mark.

 

Not great a deal with saying, if not that it is a copy of Belgian Puppy, of course.

It is very beautiful, with well worked plates. Plating is in very beautiful state.

Cheer with the landlord. I would like to find some like that.

 

Friendly

Roberto (Spain)

 

Identification 2674

 

Il s’agit ici d’un revolver à simple et double action de type LEFAUCHEUX de fabrication liégeoise et à destination civile ! Le cadre est ouvert et le barillet est lisse à 6 coups. Le calibre, d’après vous, serait de 9,5 mm à 10,35 m, on peut donc penser qu’il s’agit d’un calibre 9 mm ceux-ci étant souvent variables. Le canon est rond et possèderait 5 rayures droitières. Le guidon est manifestement manquant. Le chien est plat pour frapper les cartouches à broches. La baguette sous le canon est droite avec tête plate. La portière de chargement est placée du côté droit. La poignée comporte deux plaquettes en forme de poire réunies par une vis centrale et deux rosettes à oreilles. Elle se termine par un anneau de dragonne et une vis-pivot.

L’arme porte les poinçons d’épreuves liégeois, soit :

ELG * dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive de 1846 à 1893.

V couronné : marque d’inspection, en usage de 1853 à 1877.

Ces dates vous donnent une idée de la période de fabrication de cette arme.

L’arme ne porte aucune marque permettant d’identifier le fabricant de cette arme !

GG

 

Identification 2675

 

It is about a revolver of the type “bulldog” of Liège manufacture. The barrel is abnormally long with the front sight in half-moon with semi-barrel to mislead the customs authorities in South America where the revolvers with barrel runs easily dissimulated were prohibited. The customs passed, it were enough to recut the barrel in front of the front sight. The weapon is equipped with a safety of the Mauser type on the left side. The grips in nozzle of corbin are out of mother-of-pearl seems to me it? The weapon carries a light engraving of foliage.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

C*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1811 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

Except error, this weapon does not carry any mark of manufacturer inhabitant of Liège, the thing being usual with the weapons intended for export towards South America.

 

GG

 

Identification 2676

 

It is about a pistol of shooting or stand mono barrel. This last is striped, formed of 8 sides and equipped with a front sight and a bead out of V. The trigger guard is with puts back finger and carries a light engraving. The trigger is slightly curved. The hammer is with head punt and the oscillating striker is between the hammer and the entry of the barrel. The stick is of type “rebirth” with cap with baluster.

 

The weapon doesn’t carry any punch of any proofhouse, of Liège or other ?

 

It carries the following marks:

 

6044: it should be a question of its classification.

 

1866: I think that it is about the date of manufacture?

 

PROVOST & VOT (?) Bté: it acts without question of the mark of the manufacturer of Liège PREVOST Gustave, arquebusier-manufacturer of weapons, street of the Gold Pot, 27 in Liege. It was registered with the registers of the proofhouse of Liège of 1876 to 1899. He was the purchaser of patents ABADIE Ismaël (18.05.1881) for then yielding them to the arms manufacturer SOLEIL, Léonard. From 1869 to 1899, it will deposit anything less than 10 patents including one with MARECHAL, Michel. It dies in 1899 and its widow will continue the activity until 1903. I don’t have any idea of what means 2nd name (V.OT?) I am unaware of if it misses a letter?

"Bté" is the abbreviation of "Breveté" (Patent in English)

 

GG

 

Identification 2678

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse hammerless à percussion centrale équipé de deux canons lisses juxtaposés et de calibre 16. La platine carrée porte une légère gravure. L’ouverture se pratique à l’aide d’une clé placée sur le dessus de la platine. Elle est suivie d’une sûreté à glissière. La longuesse est à poussoir. La crosse en bois de noyer est de type « pistolet ».

 

Cette arme liégeoise porte les poinçons d’épreuves de cette ville, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

V* et S* : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

16-65 dans un oméga : calibre nominal de longueur de la douille, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

1Kg260 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

Lettre « d » : lettre annale de 1925.

 

L’arme ne porte aucune marque de fabricant.

Elle porte un numéro de série soit le n° 8950.

L71 (si bien lu ?) marque inconnue !

 

GG

 

Identification 2679

 

It is not the first time that one presents to me a shotgun “Bi-barrels” in table marked Walter CLEMENT, the weapon is matched many punches of Liege attesting of its origin. Unfortunately like am the preceding times, I always unaware of who could be Walter Clément in so far as there never existed? The arms manufacturers of Liège did not have any scruple to take names of loan in order to make cross the foreign customs without encumbers! Mystery thus, I am taking of any information on this subject.

It is thus about a shotgun to central percussion. The barrels are placed “in table”. The hammrs are external and locks ahead. The opening (crack) is practiced with the assistance the key top leverr. The weapon is marked LAMINATED STEEL  and Walter CLEMENT (unknown with the battalion).

 

It carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance of 1846 to 1893.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

D*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to 1968.

 

17,4: gauge in mm.

 

Marks

 

P crowned: is this mark unknown for me, is it a mark of the manufacturer? I am unaware of it.

 

53268 T12: number of the weapon?

 

GG

 

Unfortunately the pictures are really to bad to put it on the website, it is a pity !!

Alain

 

Identification 2681

 

It is about rifle of a Swiss type models MARTINY. The stick with eighth note is typically Swiss model. While the mechanism of the weapon is of type MARTINY. The barrel with 8 sides also comprises sight of Swiss type.

 

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

A* (read so well?): countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

FL N°1: indicate that the ammunition is of type FLOBERT N°1.

 

RW: mark of the manufacturer of weapons Rene WARNANT (see the site).

 

MEYERS-COUNE (Henri): manufacturer of weapons of Liège (Cheratte) Auteur in 1913 of two patents on an automatic pistol.

 

GG

 

Identification 2682

 

Il s’agit vraisemblablement d’un fusil d’infanterie à vocation civile puisqu’il ne porte pas de poinçons militaires.

 

Il est d’origine liégeoise comme l’indiquent les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de cette ville, à savoir :

 

ELG* (5 branches) : acceptation, en usage du 18.08.1818 au 11.07.1893.

 

Trois barres en diverses positions : il s’agit de marquages d’équipeurs.

 

Les autres marques me sont malheureusement inconnues comme :

 

B couronné dans un ovale vertical répété plusieurs fois sur l’arme ?

 

HW couronné (arrière de la platine): à n’en pas douter la marque du platineur. Aucune liste de platineurs liégeois n’a jamais été établie ! 

 

S et F couronné : inconnus.

 

Doubles C inversés, G.V et 4 points en carré : signification ignorée ?

 

Désolé de ne pouvoir être plus précis.

 

GG

 

Identification 2683

 

J’ai l’impression que cet ancien canon à verrou a été remonté sur un bois plus contemporain (crosse pistolet). Les traces d’ajustage dans le bois sont assez incertaines. Ce canon de calibre 12 (lisse ?) n° 7417 porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation de 1893 à 1968.

 

UA accolés et étoilés : contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

 

Perron : inspection en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

12A dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

 

La fourchette de fabrication de votre arme serait donc entre 1898 à 1924.

 

L’absence de marque de fabricant me limite dans mes recherches, désolé.

 

GG

 

Identification 2684

 

This is a needlefire gun constructed about 1850 by Johann Georg Beutter at Reutlingen/Germany.  Beutter made these guns in order to get military orders. His needlefire system used partly construction elements of the Dreyse system and in january 1850 he showed a gun with his system to the Royal Württemberg Arsenal in Ludwigsburg but they couldn't test the gun because lack of ammunition. Over that they took the system for too complicated and so unusable for military purpose. But they bought one of his guns for the Württtemberg model collection of arms. Guns with this system are today extremely rare because there are only very few examples made. The system has been documented in an article by Heinz Lehner in Deutsches Waffen-Journal 7/1986, page 780ff asnd in the book "Das Zündnadelgewehr, eine militärtechnische Revolutiuon im 19. Jahrhundert, Herford 1991, S.251/252"

Regards

Udo Lander (Germany)

www.lander-historic-arms.de

 

 

Looks like it is a needlefire rifle on the Charles Karbaum patent, possibly made by himself.

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Operating%20Systems/Bolt%20Actions.html

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Odd%20Fellows/needle%20fires/Needle%20Fire%20rifle%20by%20Carles%20Karbaum.htm

JA$ (Nederland)

 

 

 

Bonsoir Alain

En consultant les archives allemandes:  MI est un poinçon de contrôle au XVIIe  et début du XVIIIe siècle dans la région de Beschau.

Traduction: By consulting the German files:  MI is a proofhouse mark with XVIIe and beginning of the XVIIIe century in the area of Beschau.

Amicalement

Daniel Casanova (France)

 

 

Dear Sir,

The rifle shown as Identification 2684 seems to be a needle-gun designed and made by Gebr. Beutter, Reutlingen, in Germany. It is described in: Rolf Wirtgen (ed.): Das zündnadelgewehr (Verlag E.S.Mittler & Sohn GmbH 1991) p. 251-52. According to this it has also been described in Deutsches Waffen-Journal 7/1986, p. 780 ff.

It seems that the rifle shown in Identification 2684 is stamped 28. The rifle described in Das Zündnadelgewehr belongs to the Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung in Koblenz (inv.-Nr. 07235). It is stamped 29

Yours sincerely

Bjørn Nielsen

Formerly of the Tøjhusmuseet in Copenhagen, now living in Brussels.

 

Identification 2686

 

It is about a revolver model 1906 (for cartridges NAGANT 7,5 mm, 3 lines Russian or 8 mm Lebel) with 6 shots of the arms manufacturer of Liège William GRAH. It is in Russian gauge 3 lines corresponding to the 7,62 mm or the 8 mm Lebel. The round barrel is striped with front sight on the tape. The cylinder is with 6 rooms. This weapon is inspired by revolver NAGANT Russian 1895 and perhaps by the NAGANT model 1910 (never considering?) but its barrel is not advancing like Nagant!! The grip consists of two plates in walnut. They are smooth and joined together by a central screw. The bottom of the grips carries a ring and its screw-pivot.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Q* (P reversed): countermark of the controller, of use of 1977 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

L crowned: this punch does not belong to the bench of tests and resists the identification for a long time. We think that it is about a mark of identification of a manufacturer of cylinders but that remains to be shown!

 

The weapon carries the following mark:

 

W. GRAH' S PATENT LIEGE BELGIUM: it is about the mark of the manufacturer William GRAH, street Jonkeu, 8 in Liege credit of 1910 to 1914. This manufacturer is the author of 5 Belgian patents.

 

Enclosures:

a) sketch of the patent has which concerns presents it weapon.

b) Presentation of the complete weapon.

c) Calling card of the manufacturer.

 

GG

 

Identification 2690

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion and juxtaposed barrels of gauge 16. Locks are equipped with external hammers. The stick out of wooden of walnut with cheek is of "pistol type".

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

16 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

G*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

16,8: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

The other punches (at least 1) are illegible.

 

The guns carry a not very readable mark which could be J.H. (?). Perhaps it’s of initial of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles?

In addition, I did not see nowhere on this weapon what could be a mark of manufacturer of weapons inhabitant of Liège?

 

GG

 

Identification 2691

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à percussion centrale et à brisure de type « top break ». Le cadre est fermé. La brisure (ouverture) se pratique à l’aide du dispositif placé au dessus du chien. Le canon rayé est rond avec une bande supérieure rectangulaire. Le guidon est semi-circulaire. Le calibre n’a pas été communiqué ? Le barillet est à six chambres. La crosse est constituée de deux plaquettes (noyer ?) lisses réunies par une vis centrale.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à 1968.

 

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

 

O* : contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

 

L couronné : il pourrait s’agir d’une marque laissée par le fabricant de barillets ?

 

JD – RD – LL  - 89 : il s’agit de marques de sous-traitants non identifiés.

 

La marque JBR couronné appartient au fabricant d’armes liégeois Jean-Baptiste Rongé place St Jean, 4 à Liège. Il fut inscrit au banc d’épreuves de 1832 à 1929. En 1929 l’activité est reprise par l’ARMAF (voir le site). Ce fabricant est également dépositaire de 4 brevets de 1894 à 1928.

La marque peu lisible gravée sur le canon soit : ?RAIFIRE ARMS MANUFACTORY AUTOMATIC est postérieure à la fabrication initiale et appartient en toute vraisemblance au revendeur anglophone ?

 

GG

 

Cela nous donne donc une fourchette de date de fabrication : entre 1894 et 1929

Alain

 

Identification 2693

 

La signature qui se trouve sur votre arme est : Ross Edinburgh.

Ross est le nom de l’armurier et Edinburgh est une ville de Grande Bretagne.

Il y a 20 Ross dans le Der Neue Stockel mais un seul à Edinburgh, c’est Daniel Ross Edinburgh/Scotland – 1815-39.

De 1815 à 18, 64 Pleasance

De 1819 à 39, 9 South St Andrew Street.

Il avait acheté cette fontaine pour l’offrir à sa ville mais il est mort avant de la voir remontée à Edinburgh : http://e-monumen.net/patrimoine-monumental/ross-foutain-edimbourg/

 

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/1/1_buildings_-_ross_fountain_postcard.htm

 

Voila ci-dessous une paire d'arme fabriquée par Daniel Ross

 

Identification 2694

Hi,

This is an easy one. It is a Tokarev pistol, kaliber 9mm made in Hungary. It is a specific variation because it has a safety and different grips. It used to be known as "Tokagypt" because it was intended for the police in Egypt.

A number of guns were delivered to Egypt but somehow things went wrong with a later contract. The Hungarian company (I believe it was FEG) then sold the guns they had already produced to the German wholesale company HEGE. They sold the piece in Germany under their own brand as the "firebird".

Greetings,

JA$ (Holland)

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Rifles%20of/Hungary/Hungary%201948-1990/FemeruFEG%20Pistols/TOKAGYPT%2058%20Pistol/TOKAGYPT%2058%20Pistol.htm

 

 

Hello,

Hungarian Firebird or Super 12. Civil version of ordered Tokagypt with 15.000 specimens by Egypt in 1958.

Jean-Pierre Bastié (France)

 

In 1957 Fémáru Fegyver és Gépgyár received the Egyptian Army contract for a Tokarev TT-33 type pistol in 9x19mm Parabellum. This pistol was developed by Ambrus Balogh, weapons engineer at Fémáru and it was originally referred to as TT-9P, but eventually it was called and marked "Tokagypt 58".
It was a significant modification of the Soviet Tokarev TT33 and the Hungarian 48.M for the 9x19mm cartridge. A new safety catch was fitted on the left top side of the receiver, a convenient one-piece wrap-around plastic grip and a finger support on the magazine.
Apparently after the first few batches had been delivered, the contract was terminated. This is difficult to understand, the concept was sound, and the pistols were well made. Perhaps the decision was more political than technical.

Some of the guns were released to the commercial market, many being sold in West Germany under the name 'Firebird'. Another Commercial slide legend was 'PARABELLUM Cal 9mm.

 

Enrico leveni (Italia)

 

Identification 2696

 

It is about a revolver top break Dieudonné LEVAUX with central percussion. This weapon was the subject of a patent filling the 15/02/1876 undert the n° 38750. (See the enclosure) the barrel is with 8 sides and carries a rectangular front sight placed dovetail. The cylinder is with 6 blows. The calibre is of the 32. The trigger is without trigger guard. The stick consist of two plates of walnut squared joined together by a central screw and rivet washers with ears. This stick ends in a ring of cap and its screw-pivot. The entirety of the weapon carry gilded nails (or out of gold?) placed in rhombus.

 

Punches

 

The weapon does not carry any lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE.

 

Marks

 

This revolver of luxury carries the following marks:

 

5368: serial number?

 

D.D. LEVAUX Bté (see the site). Revolver LEVAUX was manufactured by several firms of Liège of which in particular LEPAGE, ANCION-MARX, Jean-baptiste Rongé. It carries however only the mark of the inventor who is probably also the manufacturer.

 

CRUCIBLE CAST STEEL: matter whose is made the weapon.

 

C ALBALADEJO Y CA SAN MARTIN IB BUENOS AYRES Obviously it acts of the Argentinian retailer!

 

GG

 

Identification 2697

 

It is about a shotgun of Liège manufacture. The barrels of gauge 16 are juxtaposed (in table!). Locks are of type “ahead” the system is of type “hammerless” with key Top Lever and safety with slide. The weapon is equipped with a double trigger with trigger guard of protection. The forearm placed under the barrels is not enough visible to determine the type. The stick in wlnut is of type “pistol”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

G*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

16-20 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

1Kg277: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Letter resembling one 6 (Photographs very bad!) it is about a yearly letter which I did not find in the lists?

 

Mark

 

4464: classification of the weapon struck by the manufacturer.

 

No other mark allowing to direct our research??

 

GG

 

Identification 2698

 

It is about a shotgun pinfire of the type LEFAUCHEUX. The barrels in Damas are juxtaposed. They should be according to marking, of gauge 17 mm or gauges 16?? The hammers are external and the trigger guard with volutes protects two triggers. Locks are known as “behind”. Engravings in hollow bottom represent foliage.

 

The weapon carries punches of the proofhouse of Liège of which some partially are erased, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

M crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

17.0: gauge in mm (1889 at our days?)

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

HANIS or HARDY (partially unobtrusive) A VERVINS: Vervins is a French city of the department Aine. The first word should be the name of an arms manufacturer of the time but I did not find anything!

 

NJG (partially unobtrusive) on a gun: it could be a question of a mark of manufacturer of barrel but I did not find anything of correspondent.

 

2060: probably the serial number?

 

250: it could be a question of a mark of workshop??

 

GG

 

Identification 2699

 

Cette arme issue d'un fusil d'infanterie classique Mle 1857 ou carabine Mle 1859 fabriqué - On ne sait pas ou ??? en Septembre 1863, s'appelle un Modèle 1867.

**( Seul diffère les planchettes de hausse)**

Bricolé par un "Gougnafier" en fusil de chasse il à perdu sa hausse et son guidon, le canon a été recoupé, le ressort de rappel de culasse et la vis de queue de celle ci sont complètement matraquées !!! AD PÂTRES !!!

Voila la triste Histoire d'une relique du second Empire, Désolé.

Pour en connaître la provenance il faudrait nettoyer la platine de percussion.

Le bloc est du type I militaire - il ne s’agit pas d'une transformation postérieure au confit militaire de 1870 (ou le bloc aurait été en bronze - moins solide) aussi appliqué aux fusils comme les 1816/22 t Bis qui sont devenu des 1822 t Ter.

Des quantités ont été transformées de 1867 à 1870 (compris bloc type II) sans inclure les blocs bronze, carabines mle 1859 - 33 040, fusils Mle 1857 - 270 450, fusils de dragon Mle 1857- 37636 (reconnaissable aux garnitures en laiton).

Munitions entre 250/300 ctgs par armes fournies au Dpt de la défense !!!

 

@lain

HAUSSE DE LA CARABINE MLE1859 POUR EXEMPLE ..............................

 

Suite en images arme d’origine et transformée

Les munitions de 18.1 pour cal nominal du canon de 17.8.

La munition de carabine Mle 1859 transformée 1867 est plus puissante & l'alésage de la chambre est plus long.

 

Identification 2703

 

It is about a revolver of Liège manufacture of the type “BULLDOG” with central percussion and box frame of a model very common to the XIXe century.

The smooth cylinder comprises six rooms. The short and round barrel is probably striped with a front sight in half-moon. An articulated rod is placed under the barrel. The curved trigger is protected under an oval trigger guard.

The stick in nozzle of corbin consist of two plates out of wooden (Walnut?) squared and assembled by a central screw.

The loading is practiced by a side door placed on the right side of the weapon.

 

The weapon carries two punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Letter J probably crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

The weapon carry also the initial S.C on the internal face with the cylinder, is it initials of the manufacturer of the weapon or of the cylinder? I did not find anything of correspondent.

 

GG

 

Identification 2704

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse de type hammerless à percussion centrale.

La crosse en bois de noyer est de type « pistolet ».

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Li !ge, soit :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à 1968.

12C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

D = 65 m/m / 20.6 : longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1892 à 1924.

S* et AV* : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

Choke 18.4 18.7 (si bien lu ?) : canons chokés : calibrés à 22 cm de la culasse. En usage du 30 juin 1924 au 26 février 1968.

Lette minuscule « C » : si bien lu ? Il devrait s’agir de la lettre annale de 1924.

P 1 K ???? : (Marque partiellement illisible) : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage du 30 juin 1924 à nos jours.

L’arme porte également la marque de fabrique E.B dans un ovale qui appartient à la Fabrique mécanique d’armes en blanc BRAEKERS Charles & Cie fabricant d’armes rue du Crucifix, 21-39 à Herstal. Elle fut inscrite au banc d’épreuve de 1920 à 1935. Elle est titulaire de 12 brevets.

GG

 

D’autres photos d’armes de cet artisan figure dans mon premier ouvrage si cela vous intéresse !!

Voir : ICI

Alain Daubresse (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2706

 

It is about a revolver with percussion and open frame. The smooth cylinder is with 6 rooms. The barrel is with 8 sides. The loading is practiced using a lever-tamping-bar placed at the rear of the barrel in front of the cylinder. The stick not entirely visible seems to consist of two plates (wood??) finely squared. The weapon carries an engraving of foliage in hollow bottom.

 

The weapon also carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of tests of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Y crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877. The list of these controllers unfortunately disappeared for a long time (war 14/18).

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

1843: it was not use to register the dates on the weapons at the time; it most probably acts of a job number.

 

S.V or S.U: marks unknown? It could be a question of the signature of the engraver (assumption?)

 

Crowned M.G: mark of manufacturer who could belong to GUERETTE Mathieu, arms manufacturer in Liege places Saint Severin n° 65 in 1871. He is the author of two patents.

 

GG

 

Identification 2707

 

The “Howdah pistol” is the weapon of the last chance. It was vague but large calibre. It was generally intended against the deer and in particular to India at the time of hunting for the tiger when this animal tried to climb on the elephant carrying the hunters.

This weapon of English origin was copied in Liege or it was indicated on the name of “Scottish”!

It is about a juxtaposed barrel weapon of calibre 14 mm. It is striped as indicates it the punch R crowned struck the barrels. The percussion is central. The barrels rock for the loading/unloading using the lower key. The hammers are external. The two triggers are curved under trigger guard with puts back fingers. The stick out of wood (fruit-bearing?) and slightly squared. It ends in a metal cap.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liège, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to 1968.

 

Letter Q: yearly letter (not certain of its reading. 1938??)

 

The weapon also carries the mark 109 which could be the serial number. This weapon does not carry any mark making it possible to identify the manufacturer of Liège. That was very often the case for the weapons of drafts intended for export towards the Indies, Africa or the Central America.

 

GG

 

Identification 2711

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale. Les deux canons de calibre 12 sont juxtaposés. Les platines portent les chiens extérieurs. Elles sont gravées de motifs africains (village, palmiers) Le pontet porte une gravure représentant l’explorateur Charles Norton STANLEY. Ce nom est également incrusté à l’or fin sur la bande reliant les canons.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

U* D* : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

Lettre minuscule "i": lettre annale de l’année 1930.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

12-70 dans la lettre oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de douille, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

1Kg312 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près ; En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

Choke 18.3 : canons chokés, calibrés à 22 cm de la culasse, en usage du 30 juin 1924 au 26 février 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

L. VAN CAUWENBERGHE ANVERS : revendeur anversois (Ville du Nord de la Belgique) de cette pièce.

 

STANLEY : voir ci-dessus.

 

D couronné : poinçon de DELCOUR à NESSONVAUX fabricant des canons.

 

13.120 : numéro de l’arme.

 

GG

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion. The two barrels of gauge 12 are juxtaposed. Locks carry the external hammers. They are engraved African reasons (village, palm trees) the trigger guard carries an engraving representing the explorer Charles Norton STANLEY. This name is also encrusted with the fine gold on the tape connecting the barrels.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

U* D*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Small letter “i”: yearly letter of the year 1930.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12-70 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

1Kg312: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram; In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Choke 18.3: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech, of use of June 30, 1924 to February 26, 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

L. VAN CAUWENBERGHE ANTWERP: from Antwerp (City of the North of Belgium) retailer of this weapon.

 

STANLEY: see above.

 

D crowned: punch of DELCOUR with NESSONVAUX manufacturer of the barrels.

 

13.120: number of the weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2712

 

Only one photograph of the weapon, it is little!

It is about a shotgun to two unrifled bores and juxtaposed. Locks are known as “behind” with external hammers.

The stick seems to be in walnut with handle pistol.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

Double P reversed and spangled and P spangled: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

13,9: gauge (in mm) Of use of 1889 to our days.

 

I did not see the impossible to circumvent ELG* in an oval crowned or not?

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Made in Belgium: arm intended for export.

 

D crowned: mark of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles DELCOUR-DUPONT in Nessonvaux.

 

A.D. (read so well??): mark unknown probably belonging to a subcontractor.

 

GG

 

Identification 2715

AHHHHHHHHHHH................... BELLE TROUVAILLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oui de chez OUI OUI...............

C'est l'outil qui sert à fabriquer les "Cônes" de papier pour la fabrication des cartouches combustibles Mle 1866 - donc pour le Fusil "Chassepot de 11mm" et contrairement à ce que pourraient penser quelques esprits mal tournés ce n’est pas à l'usage du "Proctologue" !!!! L O L  (C'est un peut fin !!!)

Précision : le cône recouvre le projectile conique en majeur partie.

Voir plan ci-joint - il existe un autre outil du même genre pour la partie cylindrique de la cartouche (avec la charge de poudre noire).

Usage :

- On roule le papier sur le mandrin puis on le colle.

- Ensuite il est adapté avec la balle sur la partie de la cartouche.

 

Identification 2717

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse hammerless à percussion centrale de type ANSON & DEELEY. La platine est carrée. La clé d’ouverture est de type « top lever ». Les canons lisses de calibre 12 sont juxtaposés. Ils sont réunis par une bande striée avec la marque Manufacture liégeois d’armes à feu Liège à l’or fin. La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

12C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

S et X étoilés : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

  EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

P1K467, 6 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses). En usage de 1898 à 1924.

Choke 17,6/18 ? 17,6/18,5 (si bien lu ?) : canons chokés, calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse et à la bouche.

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

Manufacture liégeoise d’armes à feu Liège : entreprise sis à Liège rue du Vertbois, 54 (voir le site).

ML couronné dans un ovale : marque de cette manufacture.

145548 : numéro de l’arme.

1147 : il pourrait s’agir du n° des canons ?

ACM dans un cercle : marque du fabricant de canons de fusils que je n’ai pu identifier !

HUBERTUS : marque utilisée par cette manufacture.

Poudre blanche : par opposition à la poudre noire, il s’agit donc de poudre vive !

GG

 

Identification 2720

 

It is about a shotgun to lock hammerless with “top lever” and safety of the Galand type behind this one. The unrifled bores are juxtaposed and of gauge 12. The stick in walnut smooth is worked “pistol”. The forearm is with push rod.

 

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

AH*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke. In use of 1898 to 1968.

 

1Kg378: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Letter “q” tiny: yearly letter of 1938. (Year of manufacture).

 

12-70 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Choke 18.4: chokes barrels. Gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use of 1924 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Made in Belgium: without comment!

 

J.F. : mark of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles Jean FALLA in Liege. See the comments on the site.

 

404: number of rifle.

 

DH and 81: marks of workshops.

 

The weapon does not carry any mark of manufacturer, it will thus remain unknown.

 

GG

 

Identification 2722

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion of hammerless type. The unrifled bores are juxtaposed and of gauge 12. The opening is practiced using the higher key of type “Top lever”. The safety of the type “Galand” is placed just behind. The lock is square and decorated with an engraving of the type “vine”. The stick out of wooden of walnut is of type “pistol”. The foreamr is of style “with pump”. The weapon carry the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12-70 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use from June 30, 1924 at our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Y*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

18.4 CHOKE 18.3: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use from June 30, 1924 to 1968.

 

Letter y (with back): without could certainty, it act of the yearly letter of 1954?

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

1751: number of the weapon.

 

J.F.: it is about the mark of Jean FALLA manufacturer of barrels of rifles in Liege (see site).

 

NJ in an oval lying: I am unaware of his significance. It is probably about a subcontractor?

 

MARECHAL engraved on the barrels: The Who’s Who arms manufacture of Liège quotes nineteen “Maréchal”, difficult to be found there?

 

GG

 

It still remains in Belgium two or three craftsmen able to restore this weapon, the problem is the legislation as regards forwarding of the firearm!!

To make enter the weapon to Belgium it is not simple!!

Simplest would be to ask your gunsmith (a true gunsmith, not a merchant of weapons!!) to make it or to send your weapon to him in Belgium.

 

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2725

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion with two unrifled bores, juxtaposed, out of steel and of gauge 12. The two hammers are external. Behind those we find a key “Top lever” allowing the rocking of the barrels. Locks of type “ahead” and are decorated with an engraving in rollers. The stick in walnut is worked “with English”. The double trigger is protected by an oval trigger guard.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG*in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

M*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

12 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924, which gives us a date of approximate manufacture.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

P1K514, 3: Weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (smooth weapons). In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Choke 17,5/18.4 - 17,5/18.3: Chokes barrels, gauged in mm, to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924 what still refines the age of the weapon.

 

D= 70 M/M /20.6; Length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the powder without smoke. In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Manufacture liégeoise d’armes à feu, société anonyme Liège Belgique: This firm was located street of Vertbois, 54 in Liege. (In reading more on our site).

 

ML crowned Special steel: type of steel used for the barrels.

 

ML crowned in a vertical oval: one of the marks of this firm.

 

GG

 

Identification 2726

 

Ce revolver Lefaucheux est de fabrication Parisienne, modèle 1854.

Le LF 1855 fait partie de la première série, culasse "chapeau chinois" et crête de chien très relevée.

Arme probablement issue d'un coffret puisque l'anneau de dragonne est absent.

Pièce fabriquée » au 9 et 9 bis de la rue Lafayette à Paris.

Arme à canon octogonal en 9 mm très probablement rayé de 4 rainures.

Date de fabrication très probablement vers la fin de l'année 1856 ou tout début de 1857.

Merieux à Poitiers est celui qui a commercialisée l'arme.

Bras inférieur de la crosse tenu par 2 vis à la carcasse, il faudra attendre le LF 307x pour voir apparaître la troisième.

Portière de chargement sans lèvre de pincement.

Mécanisme en Simple Action (armement par le chien).

Arrêtoirs sur le pourtour extérieur du barillet.

Le diamètre de la culasse est supérieur d'environ 4 mm par rapport à celle du barillet

 

Belle arme!

 

Guillaume

 

Identification 2740

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à percussion centrale malheureusement fort abîmé. L’arme est de calibre 320. Le canon vraisemblablement rayé est à 8 pans avec guidon en forme de boule. Le barillet à 6 coups est lisse. Une baguette d’extraction est maintenue sous le canon par une vis. La détente courbe est sans pontet. Le chien n’est pas équipé du système rebondissant. Les plaquettes en bois (essence ignorée) sont lisses. Elles sont maintenues au châssis par une vis centrale. Il s’agit d’un modèle très courant dans l’armurerie liégeoise. Il était fabriqué par plusieurs artisans différents et était destiné à l’exportation.

 

Cette arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

X* : contremarque du contrôleur en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également deux marquages soit :

 

CAL 320 : calibre américain correspondant au 7,65 mm.

 

LN dans un ovale non fermé sur un montant de crosse : j’ignore la signification de cette marque qui appartient à mon sens à un sous-traitant et vu qu’aucune liste des marquages des sous-traitants n’existe, difficile de répondre. Le fabricant-exportateur laissait fort rarement une marque permettant aux douanes de l’identifier !

 

Bon courage pour la remise en état !

 

GG

 

Identification 2741

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à brisure (top breaks) et à percussion centrale. Le canon est rond avec une bande supérieure rectangulaire et un guidon en demi-lune. La brisure s’opère en manipulant le bouton quadrillé placé en haut de l’arme devant le chien. Le barillet à ellipses est à 6 chambres (calibre inconnu ?). La crosse me semble être constituée de deux plaquettes lisses en bois de noyer. Elle se termine par un anneau et sa vis-pivot. L’accès au mécanisme interne dont les pièces sont numérotées de 1 à 4 se pratique en tirant le levier dépassant de l’arrière de la poignée, il faut ensuite soulever la plaque latérale. La clé démonte-ressort est visée à l’arrière d’une des plaquettes. Elle sert à immobiliser sous tension le ressort principal afin de l’extraire de son logement.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

R* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

G dans un double cercle : cette marque ne figure pas dans le recueil des marques belges ! Une telle marque a été utilisée par GULPEN Hubert, fabricant d’armes à Liège quai de l’Abattoir, n° 27. Malheureusement pour notre identification, l’intéressé était inscrit au banc d’épreuves de 1910 à 1914, ce qui ne correspond pas aux dates des poinçons d’épreuves. Peut-être peut’ on imaginer que le père Gulpen utilisait précédemment la même marque mais c’est très incertain.

 

J.B. et C.E. sur les talons de poignées : il s’agit vraisemblablement de marquages de sous-traitants. Aucune liste de ceux-ci n’a jamais été établie de sorte que l’identification est bien incertaine.

 

GG

 

Identification 2742

 

Shotgun to central percussion. The two barrels of gauge 12 are juxtaposed. The opening for the loading/unloading is practiced using a key “Top Lever” placed in top of the lock. This one is square. The forearm (not very visible on photographs) seem me to be with lever?

The trigger are double and protected by an oval trigger guard. The stick is worked “with English” in a wood of walnut.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

S*: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

12C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Choke 17.4/18.4 and 17.4/18.5: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

A.J.D. PATENT: mark DEFOURNY, Antoine Joseph, (B.E 1900/1944) who becomes then DEFOURNY A.J arms manufacture S.A. (B.E. 1944/1967) street Foxhalle with HERSTAL. He is the author of 15 Belgian patents.

 

Fini (Finished by) GASTINNE-RENETTE in PARIS: Parisian retailer of this weapon bought in Liege.

 

1086: classification of the weapon.

 

SAFE and SUR: marks of safety damascened with the fine gold!

 

GG

 

Identification 2744

 

It is about a shotgun to two Damas juxtaposed barrels of gauge 12 (18.0 mm). The hammers are external. The opening (crack) is practiced using the key “top lever” placed behind the hammmers. Locks are of type “ahead”. The weapon has two trigger placed under trigger guard. The stick in wood (Walnut?) of type “pistol”.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liège, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

12 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

L*: countermark of the controller: in use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

18.0: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

FINE DAMASCUS FINISH: indicate that the guns are manufactured in Damas.

 

WARRENTED GOV' T TEST: seem to indicate that the weapon is guaranteed by the government (but which?)

 

JANSSEN SONS & C°: mark of the manufacturer JANSSEN Fils & company, trading out of weapons, street Lambert the Stammerer, 4 in Liege (BE 1895/1937). This firm deposited 24 trademarks of which JIEFFECO and JIEFFE & Co.

 

GG

 

Identification 2748

 

It is about a shotgun to percussion (Cap and ball). The barrels are juxtaposed and in Damas. The stick is worked “with the French” and present a human and bearded head carved. Locks are of type “ahead”.

This weapon present a punch of Liège proofhouse of final acceptance (ELG* in a vertical oval) which seems me to be that which was valid 1818 to 1893. I did not see other punches of this proofhouse.

 

The weapon also presents several marks like:

 

- Figure 44: who could be his number of manufacture.

 

- Figure 8: who could be a mark of workshop.

 

- DAMAS GUN with the fine gold enters the guns: without comment.

 

Locks are marked following:

 

B. KINDIMAN (read so well?) on a face

 

And With GRONINGUE on the other face.

It is about a town of Holland where this arms manufacturer (manufacturer or retailer) resided.

As the punch of the Belgian proofhouse of Liege indicates it, I deduce from it that the barrels are of Liège. The origin of the remainder of the weapon is more dubious considering the lack of punch. The arms manufacturers of Liège sold the barrels alone or integrated into the complete weapon.

The not very readable mention on the wood (J. BERNARD or J. HENRARD) also leaves me in uncertainty. Is it of the manufacturer of the part of wood or of complete weapon?? I’m unaware of it. This stick also presents one limps with starters in the shape of shell on the typical stick of this kind of weapon.

 

J. (P) BERNARD was a manufacturer of weapons in Liege street of the Pot from Gold, 29 and was registered with the bench of tests of 1852 to 1855. It deposited a patent in 1852 for a Damas on steel.

 

HENRARD, Joseph, manufacturer of weapon in Liege, life of 1834 to 1902. It is all that I could glaner on this one?

 

Juxtaposed letters M.M. possibly belong to a subcontractor. Those, of various specialities, intervened on the weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2749

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion and top break. The two unrifled bores are juxtaposed. The locks called “ahead” are nicely engraved scenes of huntings. The system is known as “hammerless” because the hammers are invisible. The break (opening) is practiced using key “top lever” placed at the top as of locks. The stick of walnut is worked “with English”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

D*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

1Kg443: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

12-70 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of casing. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

CHOKE 18.3: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use of 1924 to 1968.

 

Small “f”: yearly letter of 1927.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

ORY & DUQUENNE IN LIEGE: Ory Charles and Duquenne J. were manufacturers arms manufacturers street Saint Laurent, 92 in Liege. They were registered with the bench of tests of 1904 to 1934.

 

LB in a cartouche: mark of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles of Liège Lambert & Bruyninckx.

 

STEEL SIEMENS MARTIN: steel used for the barrels.

 

8736: classification of the weapon.

 

ND on the barrels: probably a subcontractor (équipeurs or others?)

 

GG

 

Identification 2750

 

It is a weapon manufactured by the firm Grivolat Père & Fils (France) for South America and on the spot resold by the firm, much known and very present at Brazil at that time, Broqua & Scholberg.

This firm sold primarily Belgian weapons but also all that was presented!!

See: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20b/a%20broqua%20and%20scholberg%20gb.htm

 

And : http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20francaise/artisans%20e%20f%20g%20h%20i%20j/a%20grivolat%20pere%20et%20fils%20gb.htm

 

 

Identification 2757

 

It is about a pinfire revolver of the Lefaucheux type. The smooth cylinder is notched for the cartridges with pin. The hammer is with dish head. The curved trigger is protected from a trigger guard. The barrel is with 8 sides with a front sight “twin wheel”. A metal rod is inserted under the barrel and is maintained by a small system with blade. The stick is in walnut smooth and ends in a metal cap, a ring and its screw-pivot.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of tests of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: acceptance, of 1893 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

R*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

13: it would have acts of the number of the weapon.

 

Two cross sabers surrounded of the initial F.L.: This mark is not taken again as such in the book of the marks. It makes me think of a trade mark by Fernand Lovinfosse arms manufacturer in Liege (see site) which presents about the same mark but with two cross rifles?

 

GG

 

It’s not the mark of Francken & Lünnenschloss, the dates of the punches don’t correspond and the mark is not crowned!!

 

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2760

 

With not doubting a weapon of origin of Liège, it acts of a shotgun to juxtaposed barrels hammerless of ignored gauge (nonvisible).

The crack (opening) of the weapon is practiced using key “top lever” placed on the top of the weapon. This one also carries the mark of the Parisian arms manufacturer (dealer) GASTINNE-RENETTE A PARIS whose history is not any more to make.

The lockscalled “ahead” carry an engraving typically of Liège called “to bouquet”!

I would not say anything about the stick since it is not represented!

 

The weapon carries certain punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

U*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Choke 18.4 - Choke 18.3 (read so well?): chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of the 04.10.1898 to the 25.02.1910.

 

Isn't punch ELG* in a crowned oval visible on the weapon?

 

The barrels carry mark JNC-HY-ANDREW?? LTD TOLEDO STEEL WORKS SCHEFIELD: is the reading of this trademark dubious, but I think that it is the English company having manufactured the barrels.

 

1942: it is with my direction the number the weapon which is repeated in several places.

 

Spangled PT: it is about a mark of tests of the Parisian proofhouse for a barrels of weapon smooth and powders smoke-free.

 

The crowned ecu whose interior drawing is not readable, is unknown for me. It is probably French.

 

In short, a Belgian weapon of manufacturing, resold by a big French arms manufacturer, which was current at the time!!

 

GG

 

Identification 2763

 

It is about a pistol FN (National Factory of Herstal) - GP = Grande puissance (High power), model 1934 seems it to me; the calibre is of 9 mm parabellum.

The weapon is equipped with an adjustable rise of 50 in 50 m up to 500 m.

The plates are in walnut squared. The weapon is provided with a safety blocking the breech and a squared button behind the trigger to make fall the magazine from 13 blows.

The hammer is round and bored.

 

The weapon carries the following punches of tests:

 

Proofhouse of Liege

 

S*: countermark of the controller of the bench of tests of Liege, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Manufacture d’Armes de l’Etat (M.A.E.) (Arms factory of the State)

 

EGB in a vertical oval: mark military corresponding proof against Belgian government. (EGB : “Éprouvé Gouvernement Belge")

 

C in a square: letter of the controller of the Munitions factory of the state.

 

Markings

 

42599: classification of the weapon.

 

Partially unobtrusive mark (ACJ??) unknown mark.

 

Crown: Such as, that does not tell me anything, but with the initial ones under this crown it could be a question of a mark of inspection of the M.A.E.

 

GG

 

Identification 2764

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion and box frame. The barrel of 4 inches is octagonal with a front sight in half-moon. The cylinder is with 5 blows of gauge 320. The rod of ejection is fixed under the barrel and swivels on the system of maintenance. It can thus be introduced in turn into the cylinder.

The weapon is not photographed in entirety, thus misses precise details.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

C*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

320: gauge weapon.

 

K SCHEILLER M.NEUMANN Z. fl.G BRE (?) BERLIN SS 97: it is probably the Berliner dealer of this weapon of Liège.

 

The mark of the trigger and the mark on the stick are illegible, I am unaware of what it acts, probably of the marks of subcontractors.

 

The mark O (??) on the back of the cylinder is also unknown for me.

 

GG

 

Identification 2765

 

It is about a shotgun to percussion (capsules) of origin of Liège. The juxtaposed barrels (gauges?) were manufactured by the manufacturer of barrels Laurent LOCHET-HABRAN of Liege-Jupille (see our site). SAINT ETIENNE is a mark added subsequently by the purchaser! The stick in walnut of type “pistol” is provided with one limps with capsules representing an eagle with the spread wings (brass). The triggers are protected by a trigger guard with volutes.

 

Mark SIMBERT belongs to S.A. des Fabriques d’armes réunies (Arms factories joined together - Albert Simonis - Antoine Bertrand & Fils, street Trappé, 22 in Liege) This mark was deposited the 2/10/1904! This firm a long time manufactured weapons with percussion which it exported throughout the world and in particular South America and Africa.

 

Mark LLH belongs to the manufacturer of barrels of rifles Laurent LOCHET-HABRAN of Liege-Jupille. This mark was deposited the 2/4/1904.

 

Six marks IIIIII belong to the equipor (anonymous) who worked the weapon.

 

The weapon does not carry a date of manufacturing but the inscription of this firm to the proofhouse of Liege goes from 1901 to 1920.

 

The punches according to belong to the proofhouse of Liege, street Fond of Tawes, namely:

 

ELG + star with 5 branches in a vertical oval: acceptance, of du11 use July 1893 at our days

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

D* and R*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

18.6: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

9740: number of the weapon.

 

With regard to the missing rod, difficult to answer you but by contacting one or the other merchant of old weapons and a little chance…

 

GG

 

“SIMBERT” is the contraction of SIM(onis) and BERT(rand)!

 

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2770

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver de type "puppy" (bull-dog réduit) de fabrication liégeoise. La percussion est centrale. L’armement se pratique par la portière latérale à ressort pivotant vers le bas et placée sur le flanc droit. La baguette sous le canon est articulée. Le canon court est rond avec guidon en demi-lune. La détente est articulée et sans pontet. Le barillet à 5 cylindres est alvéolé. Le chien est de type rebondissant. La crosse est munie de deux plaquettes en bois (noyer ?) quadrillées réunies par une vis centrale.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation post 1893.

 

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

 

F et C * : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme ne porte aucune marque de fabricant ce qui rend son identification nominative impossible.

 

GG

 

Identification 2772

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse hammerless à canons lisses superposés. L’ouverture (brisure) se pratique à l’aide de la clé "top lever" placée en haut de la culasse. Une sûreté Galand est placée immédiatement derrière. Les platines sont de type "en avant" et sont abondamment gravées. La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à 1968.

 

Lettre "q" en minuscule : lettre annale de 1938 (année de fabrication).

 

AH* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à 1968.

 

1Kg018 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à ma poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

20-70 dans un oméga : calibre nominal de longueur de la douille, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

Lion ailé : il s’agit d’une des marques utilisées par l’industriel, fabricant de canons de fusils CAP Joseph, rue Jonruelle, 62 à Liège (1904/1920). L’intéressé était l’auteur de 4 brevets belges.

 

39137 : numéro de l’arme.

 

Le fabricant de l’arme proprement dite ne s’est pas identifié sur son œuvre, il restera donc inconnu !

 

GG

 

Identification 2773

 

Your Bayonet is precisely one 1777/C year IX/M 1830

I then explain ............. If the blade is parallel to the axis of the casing (?), it is a blade lengthened during the modification of the weapons the old ones calibres (Passage with the calibre of 18mm instead of 17.5) and the setting to the Standards of Rifles with Flint and Percussions smooth year 1830, which downgraded the weapons in N° 1, because the casings were to the standards of year IX (1777 modified) - the shortening of rifles in keeping with “Acrobats” required on the level of the Bayonet a longer blade (Miss 1822) and to differentiate from this one one with kept the parallelization of the blade and the casing - contrary with 1822 which decentre of its axis.

As that not of muddle considering the barrel of one 1822 or 1822 T is of a large diameter the casing of 1777 C year IX does not go up on the barrel.

 

In pictures.............

Here are two models of Bayonet.

That of the top is one 1777 C year IX and the other is the model lengthened in 1830 (N°1 rifle corrected with tulle in 1831)

 

Seen of 1777 C year IX Blade parallel with the axis of the Casing (rifle year IX of 1814)

 

Identification 2775

 

Il pourrait s’agir d’un pistolet à percussion de « grosse cavalerie » car doté d’une baguette à tête de clou, l’autre bout étant à vis ! Cependant l’arme semble être à vocation civile car elle ne porte aucune marque militaire.

Son origine est bien entendu liégeoise au vu des différents poinçons, dont il est regrettable que la plupart soient partiellement effacés par l’usure ou un entretien trop musclé.

La platine à percussion est dite « en arrière » et la contre platine est en forme de diabolo. Cette platine à 3 vis et 1 ressort à chainette porte une ou deux marques de fabricant de platines soit LG et B (si bien lu ?).

Le canon porte des marques d’équipeurs (plusieurs barres verticales ou penchées), le chiffre 10 qui pourrait être un numéro de série ?, la lettre C étoilée et un T qui pourraient être des marques de sous-trait

ant.

 L’intérieur du bois porte la marque VC (monteur à bois ?).

 La détente est courbe sous pontet.

Le canon est court avec peut-être des rayures « cheveux » mais ce n’est guère visible sur photo. Il est doté d’un petit guidon courbe.

L’arme porte plusieurs poinçons du banc d’épreuves liégeois, à savoir :

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

Bref, une arme encore en bel état, seul le peu de lisibilité (surtout sur photos) est à déplorer.

GG

 

Identification 2777

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale d’origine liégeoise. Les deux canons lisses sont juxtaposés. Les chiens sont extérieurs avec clé de brisure « top lever ». Je n’ai pu sur ces photos déterminer le type de « devant de bois » ? Les platines sont de type « en avant ». La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

X* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à nos jours.

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

LG en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

12C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

CHOKE  1,72  / ??? : Lecture  complète impossible. Elle indique que les canons sont chokés et calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse et à la bouche. Valable du 25/02/1910 au 30/06/1924.

L’arme porte également quelques marques assez difficiles à lire et donc  identifier.

690 : numérotation de l’arme.

LD ? : Lecture incertaine.

HDD ??? : Lecture tout à fait incertaine ???

CH dans un cercle : cette marque est inconnue de ma documentation, j’ai donc cherché par la logique.

Habituellement, les armuriers liégeois plaçaient le prénom avant le nom, la seule possibilité dans ce cas "serait" Charles HAAKEN (1859/1898) qui était donc actif durant la période approximative de l’arme.

 

J’ai aussi contrôlé l’hypothèse du nom avant le prénom et cela donne, toujours durant la même période :

 

COMBLAIN Hubert (1854/1891)

COURARD Herman signalé entre 1865 et 1874.

COURARD Hubert signalé entre 1864 et 1868.

 

Enfin j’ai aussi évoqué la possibilité d’une association (deux noms) mais cela ne donne rien.

Reste encore la dernière possibilité soit que la marque d’un armurier ait été reprise par le ou les successeurs (cela existe: voir Forgeron ou Bernard) mais là encore je n’ai rien découvert.

 

Désolé de ne pouvoir être plus précis, mais encore une fois l’étude de l’armurerie liégeoise du 19e siècle est loin d’être une science exacte.

 

Cordialement.

 

GG

 

Identification 2783

 

It is about a revolver “Bulldog” of origin of Liège.

The short and striped barrel is round with bead out of V and front sight in half-moon. The smooth cylinder is with 6 blows I think but it is not visible on the photographs.

It should gauge be of the 38 or 380?

 A door of loading is placed on the right side of the weapon and allows the loading cartridge by cartridge. Idem for the unloading of the casings.

The weapon is equipped with two little grips squared with central screw.

The hammer considering its position should not be of rebounding type.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of tests of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval; final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

T*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to our days.

 

The weapon carries also various not very readable marks, namely:

 

J IT JF (read so well?) on an amount of stick: it is probably about a mark left by a subcontractor of Liège.

 

LE and JD: are also marks of unknown subcontractors. These marks were never indexed and their significance was lost.

 

GG

 

Identification 2784

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil à percussion. L’unique canon est à huit pas et doté d’un guidon en quart de cercle.

Une hausse à degrés (peu visible) est placée sur ce canon. La platine est de type « en arrière » et est placée sur le flanc droit.

La détente est courbe et placée sous pontet. La crosse est taillée à l’anglaise. Une baguette métallique se glisse entre la crosse et le canon. La crosse est dotée d’une plaque de couche métallique à retour.

Les marquages ou poinçons d’épreuves ne sont pas tous biens lisibles malheureusement. Je pense identifier les marques suivantes :

 

R couronné : il pourrait s’agir d’une marque de contrôleur du banc d’épreuves liégeois en usage de 1853 à 1877 ?

 

1968 : numéro du canon ?

 

1854 : il s’agit à mon sens de la date de fabrication.

 

N° 152 : numéro de l’arme.

 

LV : signification ignorée, vraisemblablement la marque d’un sous traitant (canonnier ?)

 

J.A. PETRY : il s’agit à n’en pas douter de la marque du fabricant liégeois J.Auguste PETRY.

Il a été inscrit au banc d’épreuves de 1842 à 1867. Il a déposé un brevet belge pour la fermeture d’un fusil se chargeant par la culasse.

GG

En ce qui concerne la baïonnette, elle était peut-être "à bouchon ?"

Ou bien l'arme n'était pas à vocation militaire ?

 

Identification 2785

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à deux canons lisses et juxtaposés de type LEFAUCHEUX. Les platines sont « en arrière ». La clé d’ouverture est placée sous la sous-garde. La longuesse est dotée d’une pédale à auget. Une pièce de pouce gravée (GT) si bien lu devrait appartenir au premier propriétaire.

 

Cette arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège suivants :

 

ELG dans un ovale vertical sans couronne : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à 1893.

 

K* : contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

Ckoke : canons chokés.

 

16,0 : calibre en mm, en usage de 1889 à nos jours.

 

L’arme porte étalement les marques suivantes :

 

6899 – 9959 : numérotation de l’arme (fabricant et fabricant de canons).

 

DGT (si bien lu) sur les canons : signification inconnue.

 

DS couronné : signification inconnue (un sous-traitant ??)

 

GG

 

Identification 2787

 

It is about a shotgun to VERTICAL percussion (Pinfire) and two Damas juxtaposed barrels of system LEFAUCHEUX to two keys. The hammers are in the shape of fish and two locks are of type “behind”. The trigger guard with volutes protects the two triggers. The stick in walnut is worked with English.

 

The weapon carries two punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

17.4: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries several marks is:

 

J. JAMAIN LIEGE: they are in my humble opinion the mark the manufacturer of barrels but I could not find his coordinates.

DAMAS LECLERE: it is the type of Damas used for the manufacturing of the barrels. Damas LECLERE was one of most famous.

1457 (read so well?): it is the classification of the weapon.

The name of the manufacturer of the weapon in itself is not reproduced on the weapon as that was often the case at the time.

 GG

For the Damas, to see:

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20l/a%20leclere%20gb.htm

Alain

 

Identification 2790

 

It is of a shotgun to percussion whose stock is carved “French” i.e. about a human head!

Locks are known as “ahead”. The two barrels are in Damas of gauge 18.6 mm. The forearm seem to me be with button?

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the bench of tests of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Perron: inspection, of use of 1853 to 1893.

 

18.6: gauge.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

T crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

148: classification of the weapon?

 

The manufacturer

In spite of an obliteration partial of the mark, it could be a question of the gunmaker of Liège SCHEPERS, Francois, registered with the proofhouse of Liège of 1844 to 1860. It had domiciled in LIEGE Mont Holy Martin, 54. From 1857 to 1860, it deposits 10 patents relating to locks.

GG

 

Identification 2793

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à six coups (calibre ?) et à culasse basculante. Cette arme a fait l’objet du brevet 020669 du 21.10.1866 en annexe.

Cette arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

X couronné : poinçon réglementaire du contrôleur, en usage de 1852 à 1893.

L’arme porte la marque H.ORTMANN INVteur BREVETE  sur la carcasse côté gauche de l’arme.

L’inventeur ORTMANN Hermann fabricant d’armes à Liège rue d’Amay, 13 puis Bd d’Avroy, 74 était inscrit au banc d’épreuves de 1865 à 1879.

Il dépose cinq brevets d’inventions armurières de 1866 à 1887 et notamment pour un système de revolver à culasse basculante, un système de revolver à 7 coups à percussion centrale, un système de fermeture applicable aux revolvers.

L’intéressé dépose également cinq marques de fabrique soit «  The Thunderer – The new american model – Le foudroyant – Exposition universelle 1878 – The defender american model of 1878 – The Lincoln american model. 

GG

 

Identification 2794

 

This Mauser model 1924 is “after the war”, as one sees it well with the buttplate.

This rifle was manufactured after war, in particular for the ABL (Armed Belgian) in .30. And also in .22 for the training.

But also for other countries, and thus in other calibres (7 mm mauser Spanish, 7.92 and so on).

When these rifles were produced for the ABL, one normally finds either a L (of Léopold III, therefore until 1950), or the B of Baudouin. On this weapon there is NOTHING.

Don't I manage to me to find there in the punches on the barrel or the breech left side, do I see a species of??? 2006 cat. 222 or something in the photo 15. Mystery, also for photograph 16.

I find also curious the two holes masked behind the front sight (photo 2).

Perhaps is this a demilitarization “old standards”!?

Oscar

 

Identification 2797

 

It's about a shotgun hammerless to central percussion of type ANSON & DEELEY. Locks are of type “ahead” and carry a light engraving. The key of opening is of standard “Top Lever ”. The hammers are external. The unrifled bores of gauge 24 are juxtaposed. They are joined together by a striated band. The stick out of wood of walnut is worked “pistol”.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Perron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

L spangled: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

24.65 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Choke 14.8 and 14.7: choke barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth.

 

Letter "e" underlined: yearly letter of 1966 (?).

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

ML: Manufacture liégeoise d’armes à feu, company located in Liege street of Vertbois, 54 (see the website).

 

ML crowned in a vertical oval: idem above.

 

148520: number of the weapon.

 

ACM in a circle: mark of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles which I could not identify!

 

GG

 

The letter of the year 1966 give us a big problem because firm ML existed only until 1929!!

Alain Daubresse

 

Identification 2798

 

It is about a shotgun to two barrels "in table". Not having seen on the interior of these barrels and within sight of marking, I think that they are rifled. The lock hammerless is square. Safety is of type “with slide” with an S (safety) out of gold. The stick of walnut is incomplete on the photographs, it is either with “pistol stick” or “English”.

 

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853 until our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

AD*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

"g" lower-case: yearly letter of 1928.

 

EL in English letters on the barrels: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

35W blindées (Armor-plated): rifled bore of gauge higher than .22 for lined balls. In use of 1910 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

1843: it would act with my direction of the serial number of this weapon.

 

J B crowned: it would be the trademark of the arms manufacturer Jules BURY, Lemonnier passage, 11-13 in Liege. Registered voter with the proofhouse of Liège of 1896 to 1947. The company is taken again by Charles Masquelier in 1964.

 

FN in an oval lying: This mark resembles very extremely a mark of the FN (National Factory with Herstal). Placed on the barels, it would indicate that they were manufactured by this factory. It is of course only assumption.

 

GG

 

Identification 2800

 

They are here two pairs of guns with percussion! I treat them one by one.

(1) Pistol with percussion and grip “worsens”

Two back lock pistols (at three points) with percussion and double unrifled bores juxtaposed in Damas. They are fixed “at drawer”! The gauge is not indicated.

The stick in walnut squared is of style worsens with limps with capsules in the shape of shell. The trigger is curved under trigger guard with volutes. The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

Letter "q" into tiny and crowned: countermark of the controller. (1846-1893)

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Number 114 could be, obviously, the classification of the weapon.

 

Initial L E (subcontractor) are unknown for me?

 

Couldn't I either identify the mark (of factory) in round letters (LX - different LH? Afflicted.

 

(2) Pistols with percussion and stick “banana”

This pair is with only one barrel with 8 sides in Damas. This barrel carries a metal rectangle of fixing. It gauge is ignored. The lock with percussion is of type 3 points. The weapon carries a metal rod without ornaments. The trigger guard with simple volute protects the curved trigger. The front sight is in half-moon.

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

N and Q crowned: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries (partially unobtrusive) following:

 

561: serial number.

 

HL (read so well): it is probably about a trademark which does not appear unfortunately in my documentation.

 

GG

 

Identification 2801

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse de type hammerless. Les deux canons sont juxtaposés. L’ouverture  (brisure) se pratique à l’aide de la clé « top lever » placée en haut de la crosse. Une sûreté à glissière de type « Galand » est également posée derrière la clé. La platine est carrée. La longuesse est « à pompe ». La platine porte une gravure animalière en fond creux.L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

U* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

12-7O dans la lettre grecque oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

1Kg281 : Poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

Lettre minuscule "a" : il s’agit d’une lettre annale datée de 1922, j’ignore pourquoi cette date ne correspond pas aux autres poinçons ??

 

Choke 18.6 - 18.5 : canons chokés, calibré à 22 cm de la culasse, en usage de 1924 à 1968.

 

D’autre part, l’arme porte gravées sur le canon, les marques (non entièrement lisibles) de :

 

JANSSEN FILS & C° : commerçants en armes à Liège, rue Lambert Le Bègue, 4. Ils furent inscrits au banc d’épreuves de 1895 à 1937. 24 marques déposées.

 

SIEMENS MARTIN STEEL FALL ???? : Marque partiellement illisible. Il s’agit de la marque d’acier utilisée par le fabricant de canons de fusils.

 

GG

 

 

Identification 2802

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse de type « hammerless » avec platine carrée et clé top lever ! Les canons sont juxtaposés et lisses de calibre 12. La crosse est façonnée à l’anglaise. Le pontet protège une double détente.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

12C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

P* et R* : contremarques des contrôleurs, eb usage de 1877 à 1968.

D= 70/20.6 : longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1892 à 1924.

P = 1K290 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

CHOKE 17.3/18.3 et 17.5/18.3 : canons chokés, calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse et à la bouche. En usage de 1910 à 1924.

L’arme porté également les marquages suivants :

LIEGE SPECIAL  E. BERNARD : type d’arme et fabricant soit BERNARD E &  Cie rue Mont St Martin, 54 de 1900 à 1935.4 brevets déposés sur la période.

GG

 

Identification 2808

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion and two unrifled bores and juxtaposed of gauge 12. The break (opening) is practiced using key “Top Lever” placed on the upper part of the weapon. The stick in walnut is worked with English.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

E*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

1.72: incomplete punch???

 

NOT FOR BALL: chokés unrifled bores, of use of 1878 to 1897.

 

The barrels in beautiful Damas are juxtaposed and marked “J.ANCION & Co LIEGE”. It is the mark Jacques Ancion & Co, Liege 1886/1887, author of two Belgian patents.

GG

This weapon goes back to before the time or the proofhouse of Liege affixed a letter of the year of manufacturing, one cannot thus know the exact date.

But Jacques Ancion exerted only two years, therefore your rifle was manufactured in 1886 or 1887.

Alain Daubresse

 

Identification 2809

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à 6 coups. La détente est en anneau. Le chien est intérieur. La crosse se prolonge jusqu’au barillet pour recouvrir le mécanisme de percussion. Une large entaille dans le bouclier facilite le placement des amorces. Le canon à pans est monté en clavette et muni d’organes de visée.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

U couronné : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1963.

 

L’arme porte également la marque de son inventeur, soit J.J. RISSACK BREVETE. L’intéressé était armurier à Herstal (Liège). Il est l’auteur de 22 brevets belges de 1847 à 1869. (Voir le site). L’arme d’origine était de calibre 8,5 mm, d’une longueur de 267 mm et pesait 580 grammes.

GG

Nous ne possédons aucun document qui pourrait nous permettre de différencier les modèles de cette arme, désolé !

 

Identification 2810

 

Il s’agit de la copie liégeoise d’un COLT Navy 1851. Il est malheureusement bien abimé et certaines des marques sont très difficiles à lire.

L’arme porte les marques suivantes :

Adress Col. Samuel COLT NEW-YORK USA : il s’agit vraisemblablement d’une marquée inventée à Liège pour faire plus vrai.

32 Calibre : si bien lu ? Calibre de l’arme.

Illisible ARMS C° : marque illisible.

20918 : numéro de l’arme.

F* et C* : contremarques des inspecteurs du banc d’épreuves liégeois. Je pense avoir également vu un Q* à classer dans les marquages d’épreuves.

J N E entre flèches croisées : marque de fabrique ? En toute éventualité, elle pourrait appartenir au marchand austro-turc de Colts liégeois type Brooklyn-Bridge NIKITIS ERBEN (1860/1880).

NN + ce qui semble être une fleur : ???

GG

 

Identification 2811

 

The New Police was developed for use by the police, in replacement of the old "Cop and Thug" single action model. It is the

second pocket size double action revolver issued by Colt.

It was introduced in 1896, and a target model followed in 1897. Both models were discontinued in 1905 and succeeded by the Police Positive

model, which had an improved inner mechanism. A total of about 49.500 were produced, which is relatively small. Collectors will discover that

this model is quite hard to find.

 

The story goes that serial# 1 was submitted to T. Roosevelt for trial when he was head of the New York City Police Board (1895-97).

The New York Police Dept purchased over 4,500 specimens, all marked "NEW YORK POLICE" on the backstrap.

 

 The gun was available in three calibers: .32 Colt short and long, .32 S&W shert and long, and the specially for that revolver developed

.32 New Police, which used a heavier bullet and a more powerful charge of powder than the usual .32, which gave it more "stopping power".

Either blued or nickel finish were available.

 

The revolver is practically identical to the New Pocket Model, except for the longer grip. It is very light (17 ounces with a 4" barrel).

The cylinder turns counterclockwise. The early models were equipped with plain wooden grips, soon followed by checkered hard rubber grips with the name

COLT in an oval at top.

 

Marcel

 

Identification 2812

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion of gauge 12 of Liège manufacturing. The unrifled bores are juxtaposed. The system is of type “hammerless”. The wood known as “pistol” is in walnut.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the bench of tests of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

12C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Peron: acceptance, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

S* and R*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Choke 17.4/18.2 and 17.7/18.2 (subject to a good reading): choke barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

LB in a horizontal oval: mark of the manufacturer of guns of rifles LHERMITTE & BRUYNINCK in Liege.

 

A&R in a rhombus: subcontractor not identified.

 

25499: serial number.

 

37 on several parts: number of the weapon?

 

PT*: unknown subcontractor.

 

BS on the barrels: mark of a subcontractor of the barrels not identified.

 

GG

 

Blois is a city of the French department of the Loir-et-Cher. In the south-west of Paris

Alain

 

Identification 2816

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion. It is equipped with two juxtaposed unrifled bores. The system is of type “hammerless”. Locks are known as “ahead”. They are engraved scenes of hunting. Safety is of type “Galand”. The forearmt is with pump. The stick in walnut is worked "with English".

It carries punches of the proofhouse of Liège, i.e.:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Letter Q *: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1963.

 

1Kg337: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Greek letter Y: yearly letter which could be 1954??

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12-70 in a large omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

CHOKE 16.4 18.4: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech, of use of 1924 to 1968.

 

The weapon carries following markings:

 

ACIER SPECIAL A HAUTE RESISTANCE (HIGH-STRENGTH SPECIAL STEEL): without comment.

 

Fabrique Nationale d’armes de guerre – Herstal Belgique: manufacture from where this weapon is originating.

 

FR3213: classification of the weapon.

 

DEMI-BLOC: system invented by the F.N.

 

GG

 

Identification 2818

 

It is about a rifle of the type “ROLLING BLOCK” invented by brothers REMINGTON. This system was already largely described on our site (see Nagant). This weapon doesn't however carry any explicit marking of manufacturer. The cartridge presented resembles furiously the 11 mm Remington to ball lead!

 The origin is however without question of Liège as the punches of the proofhouse of Liège attest :

ELG* in a crowned oval: acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore of use of 1894 to our days.

 

L*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection of 1853 to our days.

 

12.1: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

Letters EL in cursive: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries following markings:

1875: it is perhaps the date of manufacturing (without certainty?).

 

12441: classification of the weapon.

 

TTN - OK - AN H: not identified subcontractors?

 

GG

 

Identification 2819

 

Il s’agit donc d’un fusil de chasse à 2 canons lisses juxtaposés, les platines en arrières à broche sont de type Lefaucheux tout comme la double clé d’ouverture. La crosse de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise. Le pontet est à volutes.

Il porte les poinçons du Banc d'épreuves de Liège soit :

ELG étoilé dans un ovale : acceptation de 1846 à 1893.

M couronné : contremarque du contrôleur de 1852 à 1877.

EL en lettres cursives : épreuve provisoire de 1852 à nos jours.

Perron : inspection de 1853 à nos jours.

Le fabricant :

Il s’agit vraisemblablement d’Ernest BERNARD de Liège, adresse ignorée, qui a déposé deux brevets en 1862 et 1864.

La marque E.B. couronnée dans un ovale pourrait être la sienne.

Il s’agit d’un système LEFAUCHEUX à deux clés inventé par ce dernier dans les années 1850, il a donc été copié par cet armurier liégeois non identifié sur l’arme si ce n’est éventuellement  l’armurier ou sous-traitant usant de la marque JN couronné, marque qui m’est inconnue ?

Il ne s’agit en tout cas pas de Emile BERNARD, qui lui est largement postérieur (1900/1935).

 

GG

 

Identification 2821

 

Il s’agit sans conteste d’un revolver de type MONTENEGRIN fabriqué à LIEGE par un armurier non identifié. Pas de marque du fabricant ! L’arme est à percussion centrale et le calibre n’est pas indiqué ? Du 9 mm peut-être ? Le canon est long (8 ou 10 pouces) et rond. Il est également rayé. Son guidon est triangulaire. La crosse est de type banane. Elle porte des plaquettes en os me semble t’il ? Elle se termine par un anneau est sa vis-pivot.

Cette arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à nos jours.

 

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

 

AR* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également un L couronné qui n’appartient pas au banc d’épreuves semble-t’ il ? Il pourrait éventuellement s’agir d’une marque du fabricant de barillet ?

 

GG

 

It acts without question of a revolver of the type MONTENEGRIN made in Liège by an arms manufacturer not identified. No mark of the manufacturer! The weapon is with central percussion and the calibre is not indicated. Perhaps 9 mm? The barrel is long (8 or 10 inches) and round. It is also striped. Its front sight is triangular. The stick is of standard banana. It carry plates in bone seems me. It ends in a ring is its screw-pivot.

 

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to our days.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

AR*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

the weapon also carry a L crowned which does not belong to the proofhouse. Could it possibly be a question of a mark of the manufacturer of barrel ?

 

GG

 

Identification 2822

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à percussion verticale de type Lefaucheux de calibre 7mm semble-t’ il ? Le canon à 8 pans est rayé et porte un guidon en grain de riz. Le chien est à tête plate conçu pour les cartouches à broche. La détente est repliable sous la console. La baguette est fixée dans la carcasse. Le barillet est cranté façon Lefaucheux et est gravé de bouquets floraux. La crosse est constituée de deux plaquettes en os me semble-t’ il ? L’alimentation se pratique par la portière latérale droite.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1818 à 1893.

 

Lettre Q couronnée : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1853 à 1877.

 

L’arme ne semble porter aucune marque de fabricant liégeois, cela était souvent le cas pour ces armes de grandes diffusion vouées à l’exportation !

 

GG

 

 

Is it about a revolver with vertical percussion (Pinfire) of Lefaucheux type of calibre 7mm seems it? The barrel with 8 sides is striped and carries a front sight in grain. The hammer with head punt is designed for the cartridges with pin. The trigger is folding under the console. The rod is fixed in the carcass. The cylinder is notched Lefaucheux way and is engraved floral bouquets. The stick consist of two plates in bone seems to me it? The loading is practiced by the right side door.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1818 to 1893.

 

Letter Q crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

The weapon does not seem to carry any mark of manufacturer of Liège, that was often the case for these weapons of large diffusion dedicated to export!

 

GG

 

Identification 2826

 

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type to central percussion. The weapon operates using the key “Top Lever”. The weapon is equipped with a safety of the type “Galand”. A part of inch (virgin of inscription) is placed at the bottom of the English stick in walnut. The barrels of gauge 12 are juxtaposed.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance of 1893 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

V*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Stylized lion surmounting letters PV: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

12-70 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use of June 30th, 1924 at our days.

 

Choke 18.3: chokes barrels. Gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use from June 30th, 1924 to February 26th, 1968.

 

1Kg5?? : Weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of June 30th, 1924 at our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

D crowned: it is the trademark of gunners DELCOUR-DUPONT in Nessonvaux (see the site).

 

91131: classification of the weapon.

 

J F and C°: it is the mark of the manufacturer of Liège JANSEN Fils & Co, street Lambert the stammerer, n° 4. This firm was registered with the proofhouse of Liège of 1895 to 1937. They deposited 2 patents for a rifle hammerless with central fire. The firm deposited 28 trademarks.

GG

 

Identification 2827

 

It is about a shotgun to pinfire type Lefaucheux, barrels juxtaposed in (false) Damas, stock in walnut (?) imitation American walnut tree, trigger guard with festoons, locks “behind”, tested with St Etienne and of gauge 12 (the figure 17.2 on one of the barrels indicates the diameter of this last to height of the choke, and such a figure corresponds to gauge 12).

Barrels manufactured by E*G not identified.

L =??

G =??

SEYVE J = SEYVE Jean, gunner, street of Low Vernay, 23 in Saint Etienne, around 1868.

Punch of the National proofhouse of Saint-Etienne.

17.2 = internal diameter of the barrel which corresponds almost to a gauge 14.

In short, it would be about a French production located, undoubtedly, in the third quarter of the 19th century.

 

 

Identification 2828

 

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type. The key of opening is of type “Top Lever”.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

X*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1898 to 1968.

 

12 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

D = 70 m/m /20.7: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

Choke 17.5/18.4: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

NF in an oval lying: this mark wasn't found in file, in any assumption it could possibly act of the arms manufacturer of Liège Noël FRANSQUET (see the website).

 

12754: classification of the weapon.

 

CHRISTOPHE L.: gunsmith in Brussels Gallery of the Queen around 1912. It is him who sold the weapon.

 

Garanti pour poudre sans fumée (Guaranteed for smoke-free powder): this mark is in fact a publicity.

 

GG

 

Identification 2829

 

It is about a revolver of the type “BULLDOG” of origin of Liège. The percussion is central. The gauge is of 450. The cylinder is with 6 shots. The barrel with sides is striped, it carries a front sight in half-moon. The cartridge supply is practiced by the door (pretense missing) right back. The curved trigger is placed inside an oval trigger guard. The squared plates seem to be in walnut. They are joined together by a central screw.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liège, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

M*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

450: gauge nominal.

 

33: it could be a question of the number of the weapon.

 

WEBLEY: this mark was struck the barrel in a rather disordered way. It is absolutely not the mark of the famous English manufacturer!

It is extremely possible which this weapon was recently chrome because it does not seem to present any trace of wear.

The weapon does not carry any mark making it possible to identify its manufacturer, it will thus remain anonymous, which was very current at the time.

 

GG

 

Identification 2931

 

It is about a revolver top break of the type S&W. The opening is practiced by raising the cylinder placed on the top of the weapon. The barrel is with 5 blows of ignored gauge. The cylinder is striped and equipped with a front sight in half-moon. Both grips do bakelite seem to be out of, they also carry an illegible monogram which could be the initial ones of the manufacturer of Liège??

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Spangled AK: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries trademarks of the many unknown subcontractors, namely:

 

C crowned: could it be a question of the mark of a manufacturer of barrel??

 

JBP in an oval lying could be one of the two craftsmen below:

 

- PAULUS, J.B street Marie-Louise Naveau with JUPILLE.1 patent in 1828?

 

- PAULUS, Jean (BE 1924/1929) street J.Hermesse, 69 in Jupille. FROM 1904 à1926, it deposits 6 patents.

This last could be appropriate but I do not have anything to confirm this possibility!

 

LL - NR in a circle - letter a: it also acts of markings of not identified subcontractors.

 

GG

 

Identification 2933

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale et canons juxtaposé de calibre 28 (14,4 mm). La platine est carrée et la clé de brisure (ouverture) « Top lever ».La crosse en noyer est de type « pistolet ».

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

G* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1853 à 1968.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

28-65 dans un oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de douille, en usage du 30 juin 1924 à nos jours.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

Lettre 0 barré : lettre annale, année ??

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

91178 : numérotation de l’arme.

 

J F & C° : marque du fabricant liégeois JANSSEN Fils & C° rue Lambert le Bègue, 4. BE 1895/1937)- Voir le site pour plus de renseignements.

 

GG

 

Identification 2934

 

It is about a rifle of the type MARTINY HENRY (calibres been unaware of?) manufactured in Liege as the punches of tests attest some below. Except error of my share, it could be a question of the model “sporting files” using cartridge 577/450

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG * in a vertical oval: final acceptance of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

Z*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

This weapon does not carry any mark unfortunately making it possible to identify the manufacturer.

 

GG

 

Identification 2935

 

Is it about a pistol flintlock type “Navy hollando-Belgian” (1815/1830) with civil destination because he doesn't it carry any Belgian military punch nor Dutch seems it?

This weapon was already identified on our site (See Belgian lawful weapons) with in particular crowned mark DN of the manufacturer not identified.

The present weapon presents several markings, namely:

 

S and Cie: it is probably about a mark of manufacturer or of subcontractor (not identified)

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

N crowned: countermark of the controller of the proofhouse, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

JB: marks of subcontractor (Manufacturer of barrels?) not identified.

 

Anchors of navy with two partially unobtrusive letters (D C??): This mark probably belongs, but without certainty, at firm O.P. Drissen & Co.

 

The weapon carry punch ELG* in a vertical oval of the proofhouse of Liège meaning its final acceptance of use of 1818 to 1893. That gives us an invaluable indication on its origin.

Afflicted to be able to be more precise.

I am taking of any information concerning this weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2936

 

It is about a revolver not identified with central percussion. The cylinder with 6 shots is smooth (full) the trigger guard is with volutes. The barrel is round with half-round front sight. The grips are in walnut squared. The round rod with head is maintained in a system with spring under the barrel.

 

The weapon seems to carry only one punch of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

The weapon carries also various marks, that is to say:

 

BDF on the barrel: not identified (manufacturer of the barrel?)

 

JD: not identified (unknown subcontractor?)

 

DG (read so well?): initial of the manufacturer not identified?

 

11: number of the weapon.

 

The gun carries following engraving “F. CLAUDIN Bté to Paris, data base of the Italians, 38. Celebrate Parisian arms manufacturer.

 

Afflicted to be able to be more precise.

 

GG

 

Identification 2949

 

Il s’agit d’une carabine genre "WARNANT" dite de "sport" de calibre 22 Flobert. Le pontet est à volutes. Le chien extérieur et le guidon (tenon mortaise) de type trapézoïdal. La crosse est vraisemblablement en "fruitier".

Cette arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive port 1893.

 

Perron : inspection, valable de 1853 à nos jours.

 

UA* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

FL22 : calibre de l’arme (Flobert 22).

 

Marque représentant un lion dressé sur ses postérieurs et tenant un mat à drapeau avec l’indication ACIER FIN. Cette marque ne figure pas dans ma documentation.

GG

 

Identification 2950

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale et deux canons lisses juxtaposés de calibre 16. Le système est de type "hammerless" avec d’ouverture "top lever". Les platines sont dites "en avant" et sont gravées d'arabesques ainsi que la marque FORGERON. Bien que non complètement visible, la crosse me semble être façonnée "à l’anglaise".

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

AB* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

16-65 dans un oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

Lettre g en minuscule : lettre annale de 1928.

 

CHOKE 17.0 et 16.3 (si bien lu ?) : canons chokés, calibrés à 22 cm de la culasse. En usage de 1924 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

6733 : numérotation de l’arme.

 

Fait pour M. VOUZEBAUD (si bien lu ?) premier propriétaire de l’arme.

 

BROU : j’ignore la signification de cette gravure, peut-être s’agit ’il de l’endroit de résidence du propriétaire ??

 

A. FORGERON : il s’agit du fabricant liégeois FORGERON Alphonse, rue Adolphe Borgnet, 5 à Liège. Il était inscrit au banc d’épreuves liégeois de 1880 à 1932. L’entreprise a été reprise en 1932 par BOULANGER, Joseph, rue St Léonard, 492/494.

 

ACIER COMPRIMé CAP – Tête d’aigle : CAP Henri, Joseph était fabricant de canons de fusils, à Liège rue Jonruelle, 62. L’intéressé était titulaire de 4 brevets d’inventions.

 

GG

 

Identification 2951

 

It is about a revolver of the type “BULL DOG” with central percussion. Calibre 6,35mm. The rifled bore is with 8 sides and carries a front sight in half-moon. The trigger is folding without trigger guard. The rod is folding under the barrel. The stick carry two plates not of origin, are they rather coarsely cut in a wood not identified and are maintained by two screws each one !!

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liège, that is to say:

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

C*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon carries the following marks:

 

A crown + F.A.R. Patented system: Fabrique d’Armes Réunies S.A. Street Trapped, 22 in Liege. Registered trademark 29.12.1910.

 

4268: classification of the weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2952

 

It is about a rifle of living room or garden with central or annular percussion (nonvisible on the request?). The lock is of type WARNANT. The barrel is with 8 sides. The English stick seem me to be out of fruit-bearing wood.

 

The weapon carries punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: (read so well?) final Acceptance of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

C*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

C. CLEMENT LIEGE: mark from the manufacturer Charles Clément, street Chéri, 37 in LIEGE. Activity of 1883 to 1912. Author of 35 improvement and patents. He will also deposit 14 trademarks (see the site).

 

LLA Or H? : In any assumption marks of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles Laurent LOCHET HABRAN of Jupille.

 

ML: Does assumption mark of the dealer Manufacture liégeoise d’armes à feu??

 

GG

 

Identification 2954

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil à silex à un coup. Le canon est à huit pans. La platine est de type « en avant » et la contre platine à deux vis. Le chien est en col de cygne. La crosse semble être en bois de fruitier ?

L’arme ne porte aucun poinçon d’épreuves.

La platine porte la mention Jacques VALET à LIEGE.

Sur le site il y a un J. Valet, cela pourrait être Jean, Jacques ou Joseph, c'est impossible à dire. On ne peut pas savoir s'il s'agit du même ou pas !

La mention "A Liège" ne nous aide pas non plus puisqu'il s'agit d'une arme du 18ième que la Belgique n'existe qu'à partir de 1830!!

La mention HDL frappée sur le canon appartient vraisemblablement au fabricant de canons de fusils originaire de la vallée de la Vesdre (entre Liège et Verviers) mais il ne figure pas non plus sur la liste des canonniers !?

Appel est lancé à nos lecteurs pour l’éventuelle identification de cet armurier liégeois du 18e siècle ?

GG

 

Identification 2960

 

Il s’agit d’une carabine fabriquée à Liège à 1 coup de type Gewehr 88 à percussion centrale. Le canon long est de calibre 10,4 mm. Le chargement/déchargement se pratique à l’aide d’un verrou. La crosse (bois ?) est de type pistolet. (Le fusil à répétition Gewehr 1888 fut adopté par l'Allemagne en remplacement du Mauser 71/84. Il fut remplacé en 1898 par le Mauser Gewehr 98.C'est le premier fusil à tirer la 7,92 mm Mauser)

 

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à 1968.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

AF* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

12M(S ?) dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

 

10,4 : calibre en mm, en usage de 1889 à nos jours.

 

Les 3 barres différemment positionnées sont des marques d’équipeurs. Ceux-ci marquaient leurs pièces presque en chiffres romains.

L'artisan qui l'a fabriquée n'ayant laissé aucune trace il restera inconnu !

 

GG

 

Identification 2962

 

In the years 1850-1860, there was in Birmingham a certain John Plumb Clabrough, arms manufacturer, who travelled in all USA and installed one or two workshops, inter alia in San Francisco. It then returned to England, and later his son joined Johnstone and still another fellow, also arms manufacturers, who took again his business.

Is it about this Johnstone?

I cannot affirm it, but that could explain the American origin of the guns.

The company Clabrough & Johnstone was known for their conversions into small gauge of rifles Lee Enfield and Lee Metford.

To read in detail :

http://www.shootingsportsman.com/j-p-clabrough/

 

The top of the barrel is marked “Johnstone - Pittsburgh”, but it was tested in Birmingham, since it carries the punch (law of 1813) 2 cross sceptres + crown+ letters BPC and the indication of the calibre in a rhombus. With my opinion, this weapon must date from the beginning of the years 1900 (the Calbrough-Johnstone firm seems to have existed until 1925 (Approximately). The wood was also repaired by a manufacturer of cans (instead of resticking with wood pin). I did not find other details up to now.

If one looks in Flayderman, pages 745 and following, one finds the list of the American manufacturers of “damascus double”, but not trace of Calbrough nor of Johnstone. This rifle resembles those done by Ithaca (style of the hammers), but that wants nothing to say.

 

Marcel

 

Identification 2963

 

The part that you have is a rare weapon, it's pity that it is not in very good conditon but perhaps that a restoration in the respect of its age made by a professional could return a better aspect to him!?

This weapon is not the system Martini-Henri, but the system Martini-Francotte, it is Francotte which modified the system Martini, very complicated to dismount, while making it very simple to dismount and to clean!

The mention “Machine made by A. Francotte &Cie” means that it is one of the first weapons which was manufactured with the machine, and not manually. That made it possible Francotte to manufacture weapons whose parts were interchangeable, which did not exist at the time.

This weapon was manufactured at the end of the 19th century.

The marking "Fait pour MR. ED. Wenig St. Petersburg" means “Made for Mister ED. Wenig St Petersburg”. It is thus an order this people (Perhaps a gunsmith).

Here is herewith the whole of the plans and explanation of this weapon.

 

Identification 2965

 

 

It is about a pinfire pocket revolver of the type LEFAUCHEUX manufactured per thousand in the area of Liege at that time. The cylinder is smooth and probably with 6 shots. The trigger is curved without trigger guard. The plates of grips joined together by a screw are smooth. The rifled bore is with eight sides without front sight (lost?) the hammer is with head punt for cartridges with pin. The rod is also missing?

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

AR coupled and spangled: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

4863: probably the serial number?

 

ZTB: it is probably about a trademark. It is not known in Liege. It has, in any assumption, struck by the dealer not identified!

 

GG

 

Identification 2966

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion (cap and ball) fabriqué par la société CENTAURE à LIEGE dans les années 1960/1970. Ces reproductions ont eu un certain succès à l’époque. Les canons en acier sont juxtaposés et lisse, ils sont de calibre 18 mm qui correspond à du calibre 12. Les chiens sont extérieurs et destinés à frapper les amorces (capsules) posées sur les cheminées. Les platines sont de type « en avant ». La double détente est sous pontet. Une baguette métallique est maintenue sous les canons. La crosse façonnée à l’anglaise est en hêtre, le hêtre est nettement moins chers que le bois utilisé pour les armes de qualité qui était toujours le noyer.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG dans un ovale vertical non étoilé : canons bouchés, en usage de 1893 à nos jours.

 

18. O : calibre en mm, en usage de 1889 à nos jours.

 

154 : numérotation de l’arme ?

 

CENTAURE LIEGE Belgique : marque de l’arme.(voir le site)

 

GG & Alain

 

Votre fusil est donc une arme moderne, fabriqué dans les années '70 par la société "Fabrique d'armes unies de Liège".

Voir : http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20h/a%20hanquet%20famille%20fr.htm

Et

http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20e%20f/a%20fab%20armes%20unies%20de%20liege%20fr.htm

 

Identification 2971

 

It is about a revolver with (seems-it to me?) annular percussion. The loading is practiced by the right back door with cartridges with annular percussion and carrying the mark B (?).

The weapon carries an engraving representing of the foliage and the birds. The grips of wood (?) are carved of foliage and finish by a ring and without screw-pivot. The trigger is curved in an oval trigger guard. The rod under the barrel is maintained by a small metal tube into which it is slipped and fixed by a small screw. The barrel (gauges?) is round and is surmounted by a rectangular band with front sight and bead.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

R crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

This part also carries the following marks:

 

232: classification of the weapon.

 

LF: ignored significance? Marks of a manufacturer? Marks of an owner?

GG

 

There is one (very) weak possibility that this mark belongs LEFAUCHEUX, the immense arms manufacturer known in the whole world.

One is occupied checking and that take time, one will keep you informed.

 

Identification 2972

 

It is about a rifle pinfire of draft of Liège. The barrel is with 8 sides. The stick (wood?) English is with cheek. The opening is practiced using a side key. The hammer is posed on the right side. The trigger guard is with volutes.

The weapon carries two punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

EL in English letters: provisional test of 1852 to our days.

The weapon also carries a trademark or the initial ones of the owner, is GL (read so well?) in a vertical oval. Couldn't this mark be identified??

GG

Perhaps George Laloux but NOTHING makes it possible to certify it!!

Alain

 

Identification 2974

 

Rifle or rifle (rifled bore?) of manufacturing of Liège of before 1877!

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

V crowned: countermark of the controller of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

L J crowned: marks of manufacturer (of Liège) unknown???

 

L.L. : mark of subcontractor unknown of Liège (LECLERCQ Leon??)

 

R in a circle: could be a mark (armed Belgian?) of a company of bomb disposal experts???

 

J L crowned in a circle: unknown significance.

 

INVENTION P.L. N° 82 GEVELOT: Jules-Felix GEVELOT was a French industrialist (1826/1904) owner of a factory of cartridges with Isy Moulinaux!

 

BELLOW BUTTSTOCK? : Translation please?

GG

This weapon is a rifle of which the patent of improvement at summer deposited in Belgium under number 20241 by My sieurs Lagrèze & Pidault on February 27th, 1867, patent which makes following several patents deposited both in France and in Belgium.

Max

Invention P.L. N° 82 Gevelot means that the invention is of P(idault) L(agréze) and that the manufacturer is Gévelot.

Pidault Martial

Arquebusier in Paris 1842-1870.

Patents in France on June 13th, 1842 for the invention of a cylinder head turning on an axis (This rifle was manufactured by Gevelot), on June 16th, 1842 for a rifle with loading by the cylinder head and on July 12th, 1848 for simplification of the turntable.

He is also holder of the patent of the revolver Pidault é& Tevis deposited on May 16th, 1856, for the revolver Pidault & Cordier péposé on May 28th, 1860 (known under the name “Raphaël Revolver”), and finally for a rifle with loading by the cylinder head Lagrèze & Pidault on February 25th, 1867.

This last patent is that of your rifle!

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2975

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à percussion centrale et carcasse fermée. Le canon est à 8 pans avec guidon en demi-lune. Le barillet alvéolé est à 6 coups. La baguette est articulée. La détente est courbe dans un pontet ovale. La crosse est constituée de deux plaquettes en bois (noyer ??) quadrillées. Elles sont maintenues par une vis centrale, les rosettes de laiton sont rondes. Le chargement/déchargement se pratique par la portière latérale droite s’abaissant grâce à l’action d’un ressort interne.

L’arme porte des poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

W* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage du 30 janvier 1894 au 26 février 1968.

Le poinçon ELG* dans un ovale couronné (peu visible) indique l’acceptation de la visite au banc d’épreuves du 11 juillet 1893 au 26 février 1968.

14 : vraisemblablement un numéro de série.

AM sur le talon de crosse : inconnue, vraisemblablement un sous-traitant.

La marque sur la portière de barillet est illisible !

Bref, une production liégeoise anonyme.

GG

 

Identification 2976

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion. The cylinder is smooth and seems to be with 6 blows (non visible on photographs). The loading is practiced via the door of loading placed on the right side of the weapon. The rifled bore is with 8 sides with bodies of aiming. A rod sliding in two eyelets is fixed on the right side under the gun. The stick consists of two plates out of wooden smooth (Walnut ?) and fixed by a central screw at ears. It ends in a metal ring and its screw-pivot.

 

The weapon is marked lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

M crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

The weapon also carries the mark of the manufacturer, namely:

 

"MEYERS PATENTS" is “probably” the gunmaker of Cheratte (Liege) MEYERS Guillaume, Joseph, author of 6 Belgian patents deposited of 1866 to 1879. The absence of first name on the mark complicates the identification considering other manufacturers of the area of CHERATTE carried the same patronymic?! (See the site).

 

GG

 

Identification 2977

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion and box frame. This weapon is “drop system” i.e. the barrel perhaps rocked towards the line using the lever placed under the barrel!

The grooved cylinder is with 6 rooms.

The barrel is round and striped with a front sight in half-moon.

Remainders of engravings in rollers are still partially visible on the carcass.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of Liege, namely:

ELG on star in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

X spangled: countermark of the controller post 1877.

If I am not mistaken, this weapon corresponds to the patent n° 062109 of 19 July 1883 deposited by the arms manufacturer Jean WARNANT of Hoignée-Cheratte.

Appendix: drawing of this patent.

GG

See mine :

http://www.littlegun.be/ma_collection/belgique/be%20pqrstuvwxyz/a%20be%20warnant%20j%20drop%20system%20fr.htm

Alain Daubresse (Owner of the website)

 

Identification 2978

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion of type “BULLDOG” of origin of Liège. The smooth cylinder is with 6 blows. The loading/unloading of the cartridges is practiced by a door on the right side of the weapon. The trigger is curved under oval trigger guard. The probably striped barrel is short and round with a frnt sight in half-moon. The squared grips are kind “ebony or false ebony”. They are fixed by a central screw and two brass rivet washers.

 

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

P*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks on an amount of stick:

 

S.A. : subcontractor not identified.

 

B & F: manufacturer or subcontractor not identified.

 

FF: subcontractor not identified.

 

At the time, the weapon passed in the hands of various corporations of arms manufacture and the least important left a mark often not identified on the weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2979

 

It is about a revolver with 10 shots says “mitrailleuse” (machine-gun). The cylinder is with 10 blows with pin in only one line of rooms on the cylinder. Gauges it is not indicated, 7 or 9 mm?? Already Lefaucheux had manufactured revolvers with 12 blows, CHAINEUX of Liege followed with product many revolvers of this type.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in an oval vertical: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

U and V crowned: countermarks of the controllers, 1853 to 1877.

 

The weapon also carries the initial P.J which remain not identified. Is it' a manufacturer, a subcontractor or simply the first purchaser? I am unaware of it, sorry!

 

GG

 

Identification 2981

 

Shotgun to central percussion and locks of “hammerless” type. The opening is practiced using a key known as “Top Lever”. The unrifled bores of gauge 16 are juxtaposed. Locks ahead are engraved “with bouquets”. A safety with slide of the Galand type is placed behind the key Top lever. The stick in walnut of worked "with English".

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

AI*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Step: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

16-65 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

1Kg358: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Letter “i” into tiny: yearly letter of 1930.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Choke 16.9: chokes barrels: gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use of June 30th, 1924 at February 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

15755: number of the weapon.

 

32: classification of workshop.

 

Bow with arrows in a circle: mark of the Liège manufacturer CAP & GILLES Réunis S.A. manufacturers of barresl of rifles, street Chéri, 40 in Liege around 1924.

 

GG

 

Identification 2982

 

Cette arme est un "Pistolet de cycliste", également appelé "pistolet à moineaux" ou même "VeloDog", ou encore "pistolet de facteur", calibre 6mm bosquette, canon lisse, fabriqué à des milliers d'exemplaires en Belgique ou en France vers 1895-1905 et exportés dans toute l'Europe. A l’achat de …., vous receviez un petit pistolet cycliste en prime !!

Il en existe de toutes les tailles et modèles, certains ont un éjecteur et une culasse à guillotine. Ces éjecteurs et guillotines pouvant être munis de leviers de toutes tailles

Certains n’ont même pas cela, il faut enlever la cartouche tirée avec une tige par l’intérieur.

La plupart ont été fabriqués en France ou en Belgique, vendu "en blanc" en Allemagne, et éprouvé à Brême. Le U surmonté de deux couronnes est le poinçon officiel de Brême et signifie "untersucht" (éprouvé).

Finition peu soignée, mais folklore oblige. Ces machins se vendaient par paniers entiers sur les marchés et étaient offerts en prime à tout acheteur d'un vélo (ou d’autre chose).

Ces petits pistolets, dont certains ont un canon allant jusqu'à 20 cm et présentent parfois une finition acceptable sont amusants à collectionner, il y a des dizaines de variantes.

Alain

 

Identification 2983

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à double clés de type Lefaucheux. La percussion est centrale et les chiens sont extérieurs. Les canons lisses (calibre ?) sont juxtaposés. Les platines sont dites "en arrière".

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves liégeois, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation de 1846 à 1893.

 

H couronné : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1853 à 1877.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

LEPAGE et F. CHAUVOT Bté : il s’agit des inventeurs parisiens de cette arme qu’ils ont fait fabriquer à Liège la main d’œuvre y étant moins chère ! Le fabriquant liégeois quant’ à lui n’a laissé aucune marque permettant de l’identifier.

 

HL : inconnu. Il devrait s’agir d’une marque de sous-traitant liégeois.

4310 – 970 – 625 : vraisemblablement des marques de sous-traitants.

 

22172 : il devrait s’agir de la numérotation de l’arme.

 

GG

 

Identification 2985

 

Rifle with vertical percussion (with pin) of type LEFAUCHEUX made in Liege by an arms manufacturer remained unknown. That was often the case Mr. H.GRENU in NANTES was patentee (unknown?) which related to this weapon i.e. an unspecified improvement of Lefaucheux rifle. The weapon is with double key Lefaucheux. The trigger guard is with volutes. The stick in walnut is worked "with English". Engraving is "with bouquets". Locks are of type “behind” and the hammers of the dolphins type.

 

The weapon carries the punches indicating its origin i.e. the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1853 to 1893.

 

step: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

N crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

17.0: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 (?) at our days.

 

The manufacturer of Liège unfortunately did not leave any mark or indication allowing to identify it !

 

GG

 

Identification 2986

 

Shotgun to central percussion. The two barrels are juxtaposed (in table). Locks are of type “hammerless” with key of opening “top lever”. The stick in walnut is worked "with English".

The weapon carries various punches of tests which I tried to decide between as follows:

Proofhouse of Liege

 

Choke 18.3: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use in Liege of June 30th, 1924 before February 26th, 1968.

 

12 in a rhombus: gauge, of use from October 04th, 1898 to June 30th, 1924.

 

Proofhouse of London

 

Crowned CP: on the mechanism, ordinary test with the smoke-free powder.

 

NP surmounted of an armed wing of a saber: Ordinary test with the smoke-free powder on the barrel (London)

 

The weapon carries the following marks:

 

Etablissements Britte Liège Belgique (Establishments Britte Liege Belgium): it is the manufacturer of the weapon installed with LIEGE-VIVEGNIS, 252 street of Cheratte by 1924. (See the site)

 

Médaille d’or au grand prix de l’exposition universelle Bruxelles (Gold medal with the Grand Prix of the World Fair Brussels): without comment. Probably the exhibition of 1935.

 

Head of eagle: it would be about a mark of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles CAP Henri street Jonruelle, 62 in Liege.

 

870: probably the classification of the weapon.

 

Other marks like: 3 ¼ TONS - 2 ¾ - U - E arrow is unknown for me.

 

GG

 

The Britte firm still exists but does not manufacture any more weapons.

Here is its Website: http://www.britte.be/

And here is the link on Littlegun: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20b/a%20britte%20gb.htm

 

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2989

 

Obviously is it about a copy (Cap & Ball) of the revolver COLT 1853 manufactured by the firm of Liège “Cléments Arms C°”.

The plates of grips don't seem to me origin? The cylinder with 6 blows is smooth and with central percussion.

The punches are difficult to decipher. I think without certainty of having located the letters AH crowned which would belong to the controller of the proofhouse valid of Liège of 1877 to 1968? (It is your odd mark!!)

The weapon thus carries a marking far from readable (Clément Armes C°), which would belong to the manufacturer well-known inhabitant of Liège at the time is Charles Clement street Chéri, 37 in Liege. It was active of 1883 to 1912 (year of its death) It was the author of 35 patents and 14 trademarks.

The weapon also carries the marks:

A crowned: ignored significance?

3707: classification of the weapon.

GG

 

Identification 2990

 

It is about a shotgun to juxtaposed barrels. Those are different gauges is 9mm and of the 22. The system is of type WARNANT. Is it difficult for me on photographs to determine if it is about a system with central or perhaps annular percussion? The stick in walnut is of “cheek”. The trigger guard protecting two triggers is with volutes.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Perron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

AH*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

FL 9m.L: gauge 9mm of one of the barrels.

 

FL 22C: gauge second gun, 22 C (short?)

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of the 30.01. 1894 to the 26.02.1968.

This weapon is system WARNANT but any mark of any manufacturer does not seem to carry.

 

GG

 

Identification 2992

 

It is about a shotgun of the type LEFAUCHEUX conceived to draw cartridges with pin. The juxtaposed unrifled bores seem to be of gauge 15 (17.6 mm). The trigger guard with volutes recovers two curved triggers. The two hammers are with head punt. The buttplate "on return" is engraved as most other metal parts.

 

The weapon presents the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Step: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

17.6: gauge in mm, could correspond to gauge 15!

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

AL BERNARD BREVETE (PATENTS): only one Bernard Al of Liege appearing in documentation appoints the agent of a Belgian patent in 1855 for a new Damas applicable to the barrels of weapons of luxury and Damas known as lengthened. Would it be thus here the manufacturer of barrels of rifles and not the manufacturer of the weapon which remains anonymous?

 

AB crowned in a vertical oval: trademark of BERNARD AL

 

75992: classification of the weapon.

 

LT: ignored significance. Marks of a subcontractor??

 

GG

 

The Bernard and their works are in my first book : HERE

Alain Daubresse (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2995

 

It is about a rifle WARNANT to annular percussion. The rifled bore is with eight sides with front sight (tenon-mortise) and bead out of V. The extractor is with ear. The trigger is curved and is protected by a trigger guard with volutes. The metal buttplate is "on return". The stick "with English" seems to be in walnut.

This weapon does not carry any punch of the proofhouse of Liege although this weapon is originating in this city.

The weapon carries the following marks:

WARNANT PATENTS: mark of the inventive of Liège. The Warnant family was well represented in the circle of the arms manufacturers of Liège. Most important was Jean Warnant at the beginning of the 20th century (see the site). The absence of first name makes the identification difficult, 15 arms manufacturers bearing this name!!!

1305: it is most probably the classification of the weapon.

L crowned: ignored significance

MLI (read so well?) in an oval lying: it is probably the manufacturer of Liège of the weapon or possibly a subcontractor.

37 and letter R: marks of workshop?

 

GG

 

Identification 3000

 

It is about a copy of Liège of rifle with English percussion 1878 TOWER with one shot also carrying the English royal crown.

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, attesting of its Belgian origin.

 

These punches are identified as follows:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: it is the mark of final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

D*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Does the weapon also carry a mysterious mark N 3 13?? Couldn't I identify it?

 

GG

 

Identification 3001

 

It is about a revolver called “to rocker” or “top break” of type S&W. The lock is with simple and double action. The cylinder is smooth and comprises 6 rooms (gauges not communicated?). The opening starts by a button placed on the console right side behind the barrel. The rifled bore is with 8 sides with front sight in half-moon.  The grips consists of two plates in walnut (?) squared connected by a transverse screw and two rivet washers. It ends in a ring and a screw-pivot. The curved trigger is protected by an oval trigger guard.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

S spangled: countermark of the controller, post 1877.

 

Lastly, the weapon also carries the following marks:

 

P. behind the cylinder: I am unaware of the significance of it, perhaps acts it of a mark of subcontractor.

RDA: this mark can-being incomplete and thus difficult to identify. Idem for the resembling drawing perhaps representing a fish?

 

The weapon is of “type "Jean WARNANT" of HOGNEE-CHERATTE (Province of Liège) which carried out many models of revolvers top break. Its mark does not appear however on the present weapon. Perhaps' it is about a very frequent copy at the time and not signed of course!!

 

GG

 

Identification 3002

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil à percussion mono-coup à brisure. Le canon, vraisemblablement lisse, est à 8 pans et est fixé par deux "brassadelles". Il porte les organes de visée habituels comme le guidon inséré par tenon-mortaise et le cran de mire à plusieurs positions. Le canon est fixé dans la batterie par une seule vis et un crochet. Le chien est placé sur le flanc arrière droit. Ce qui me semble être une sûreté est placée à côté du chien, elle pénètre par glissement dans le corps de la platine pour venir bloquer l’ouverture (brisure) du canon ? La détente sous pontet ovale est courbe. La crosse en noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise. Le tenon fixe à l’extrémité du canon devrait servir à la fixation d’une baïonnette ?

 

Cette arme présente divers poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, ce qui nous indique son origine liégeoise. Soit les poinçons suivants :

 

N couronné : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à 1893.

 

MB – J.D – GD : il s’agit vraisemblablement de marques de sous-traitants non identifiés ayant participé à la fabrication de l’arme.

 

L’arme porte également les marques :

 

1241 : numérotation de l’arme.

 

CM dans un ovale couché : il s’agit très vraisemblablement du marquage du fabricant. Il s’agit peut-être d’une marque appartenant à Charles Masquelier, fabricant d’armes à Liège rue de la Cathédrale, 94 (1911/1925) bien que je pense, au vu des poinçons, que ces dates sont trop tardives.

 

Lettre Q (P inversé) : origine ignorée.

 

GG

 

Identification 3006

 

It is about a revolver of the type R.I.C. (Royal Irish Constabulary) Bulldog or Puppy following its size (nonvisible on the photographs). The cylinder is with ellipses. The trigger is folding under the frame (without trigger guard!) the rod with head of nipple is articulated. The barrel is with 8 sides with semicircular front sight. The plates of grips are invisible.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

AL*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon carries also various marks is:

 

C crowned: it acts with my opinion of marking of the manufacturer of cylinder of Herstal.

 

320A: gauge.

 

O - P - WB - 78: markings of workshops or subcontractors.

 

5394: number of the weapon.

 

F.F. in an oval lying: I think that it is the mark of the manufacturer but this one is not indexed in my documentation.

Several names could correspond of which the most probable can-being. (?)

FASTRE-FRAIKIN, Francois, gunmaker with Housse (Province of Liège) author of 4 patents of 1889 to 1902.

 

GG

 

Identification 3010

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion, the hammers are external and the key of opening “Top Lever”. Locks are of type “behind”. The triggers double are protected by an oval trigger guard. The steel barrels are juxtaposed with decorated central band. The weapon is equipped with a forearm not very visible on the photograph?

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1873 to 1968.

 

E12-65 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

U and Q*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

18.0: gauge in mm. In use from 1889 at our days.

 

Letter "f" into tiny: yearly letter of 1927. Date of manufacture of your weapon.

 

1Kg 636: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Perron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

ABV in triangle: who could be the unknown mark of a manufacturer of barrels of rifles of the valley of Vesdre (between Liege and Verviers).

 

9290 and 37: classifications of the weapon.

 

D crowned: mark of DELCOUR-DUPONT Jean, manufacturer of barrels of rifles with FRAIPONT-NESSONVAUX (Province of Liège).

 

The weapon does not carry the mark of the “manufacturer” itself. That was a relatively current practice at the time.

 

GG

 

Identification 3018

 

Although the photographs are catastrophic here our conclusions:

It is thus about a shotgun to central percussion, with external hammers and unrifled bores "in table". The opening is practiced using a key known as “Top Lever” placed on the top of locks, those are of type “ahead”. The weapon comprises a double trigger under oval trigger guard. The stick is said “to English” out of wood of walnut!

With regard to the punches, they are of origin of Liège, i.e. the profhouse of this city:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

T*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

28-60 (read so well) in an omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use of June 30th, 1924 at our days.

 

Choke 14.0: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use from June 30th, 1924 to February 26th, 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

TROXADO DAMASCO: twisted Damas, although that is not visible on the photographs (wear?).

 

LC (read so well?) on the barrels: marks of the manufacturer of barrels??

 

5314: number of the weapon.

 

The weapon most probably intended for export does not carry any mark of manufacturer as that was often the case to avoid customs taxations.

 

GG

 

One cannot give exact date but the punches of the proofhouse gives a fork of 1924 to 1968.

 

Identification 3020

FLACHAT (mais lequel) et Merley Delmont sont les fabricants de votre fusil. L'un a vraisemblablement fabriqué les canons, et l'autre l'arme entière.

Voici ce que dit le DER NEUE STÖCKEL de ces artisans.

 

 

 

Ce qui suit est l'ensemble des réponses que j'ai reçus, certaines sont en "Vieux François", ce ne sont pas des fautes, c'est normal. Ils se sont amusés !!

Alain Daubresse

 

Bonsoir Alain

Il FRAPPE AVANT QUE LA FLAMME NE BRILLE, suivant le collier de la Toison d'or le symbole est un "fusil" c'est-à-dire en vieux français un briquet, une pièce de fer qui, battue contre un silex permettait de créer le feu. Naturellement le mot fusil s'est ensuite adapté pour devenir une arme. Il est naturel qu'un armurier sans doute féru d'histoire s'empare de ce symbole.

Au sens étymologique cela veut dire que le chevalier ne frappe que si on le provoque. Il portera le coup dès la moindre provocation avant qu'elle devienne brillante. Cela s'applique à tout blasphème ou contre l'honneur chevaleresque.

Pour une arme à feu cela se traduit par un coup instantané...

Amitiés

Daniel

 

 

......Pour l'aspect historique de la devise de la toison d'or

 

Elle-même se compose d'une belle toison dorée, que l'on retrouve aux cous du Bon et du Téméraire sur tous leurs portraits, mais aussi de briquets et de pierres illustrant la devise de l'ordre : Ante Ferit Quam Flamma Micet (Il frappe avant que la flamme ne brille), et dans lesquels on trouve deux B entrecroisés, montrant la souveraineté du duc sur les deux Bourgogne (le duché et le comté, aujourd'hui Franche-Comté, voilà qui devrait achever de convaincre nos camarades franc-comtois de rejoindre nos rangs).

Hormis le latin il faut comprendre l'italien ancien -

je précise "fugile soit silex" d’où le nom du "Fusil" actuellement

on parle de Briquet à pierre ( silex ) il frappe avant que jaillisse la flamme ou la lumière

Comme dirait un Bourguignons Téméraire ....

(Les Françoys n'ont guère le sang froy").

ci dessous des briquets anciens

Briquet à battre le silex ou "Fusil"

 Photos 3 et 4 des illustrations de "Briquet" retrouvés par fouille.

 

 

Photo 8 : (En vieux français)

L'ont vois superbement bien les "Briquets Bourguignon" entrelacés

avec les flammes du choc du Silex (Fusil)

 

Identification 3023

 

They are a pair of pistols known as “Scottish” with percussion. The system with box is equipped with a central hammer with percussion. The grips is in walnut of good quality, it ends in a metal cap equipped with a starter receptacle with lid in the shape of shell St Jacques. A fine floral engraving decorates the box.

 

The weapon carries only one punch of the bench of tests of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

The weapon also carries a mark (of the manufacturer?) GM not identified as such but which could perhaps correspond to the one of the arms manufacturers following inhabitants of Liège:

 

MARIETTE Guillaume (1840/1875) author of 22 Belgian patents.

MERCENIER G. Blegny, author of 2 patents of 1862 to 1864.

MORDANT G. of Liege (1850/1876) author of 3 patents.

 

GG

 

Note webmaster:

It is indeed very rare that a weapon of this kind has a system of aiming.

In theory this kind of weapon is rather made to draw at very short distance, almost with the contact!!

 

Identification 3027

 

It is about a small revolver with annular percussion said “Vélo-dog”. The calibre is of 6 mm. The short barrel is with 8 sides with front sight in half-moon. I am unaware of if it is striped because not announced! The hammer is with ball. The cylinder with 5 blows is long to accept the long cartouche vélo-dog. The rod is articulated. The trigger swell without trigger guard is folded up in the carcass. Both grips are out of black wood (ebony or false ebony?) and are fixed using a central screw.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in an oval crowned: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

AH*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

L crowned: could it belong to a manufacturer of barrels (Herstal) not identified?

 

6 or 9 following the position of the barrel: number of the weapon.

 

The amount of stick carries several marks of which some are illegible, that is to say:

 

16: classification of unknown origin (workshop?)

 

MR.: marks of an unknown subcontractor?

 

GG

 

Identification 3031

 

Il s’agit d’une carabine à un coup de type WARNANT de calibre 9 mm. Le canon est à 8 pans et le pontet à volutes. Le système de percussion est de type WARNANT bien connu. La crosse à l’anglaise semble être en bois de fruitier.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

BB* : contremarque de l’inspection post 1877.

Perron : inspection post 1853.

FL 9mC : calibre annoncé.

8,4 : calibre réel ?

1913 : année de fabrication.

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

RW : marque du fabricant liégeois WARNANT René, inscrit au banc d’épreuves liégeois de 1912 à 1956. Il est l’auteur de 4 brevets d’invention. En 1934, il reprend l’activité de WARNANT Emile.

AD JANSEN ARMURIER BRUXELLES (gravé sur la crosse) : il s’agit du revendeur bruxellois bien connu (voir le site).

GG

 

Identification 3032

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil à verrou à un coup et à percussion centrale. La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise. Le canon d’acier est rond. Cette arme de fabrication liégeoise n’est pas clairement identifiée. Elle porte néanmoins les poinçons du banc d’épreuves liégeois, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à 1968.

Perron : inspection post 1853.

AE* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

28C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de1898 à 1924.

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

13,8 : calibre

L’arme porte également divers marquages soit :

G13004 : numérotation sans correspondance connue.

T5355 – 50560 – 102 -  J 76 – D4 – BB : idem ci-dessus.

/ / / : Marques d’équipeurs.

Il ressemble étrangement au fusil "Gras" français, sauf le fait que le verrou est coudé mais peut-être ce modèle existe t'il dans les différentes fabrications du fusil Gras !?

GG

 

Identification 3033

 

It is about a shotgun to double juxtaposed barrels (gauges?). Locks are known as “behind”. The hammers are external. The key superior is known as “Top Lever”. The double trigger is under oval trigger guard. The forearm is not enough visible to determine its type. The stick in walnut is worked "with English".

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

S*: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

279: classification of the weapon?

 

6D: does workshop mark?

 

The weapon also carries the mark of the manufacturer, that is to say FAND HANQUET LIEGE, it acts of the arms manufacturer of Liège Ferdinand HANQUET registered with the profhouse of Liège of 1872 to 1920. The company will be taken again in 1920 by the Fabrique d’Armes Unies de Liège (F.A.U.L).

 

GG

 

Identification 3034

 

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type to central percussion. The weapon operates using the key superior “Top lever. The weapon is equipped with a safety of the type “Galand”. The stick in walnut is of standard “pistol”. The barrels of gauge 16 are juxtaposed. The double trigger is protected by an oval trigger guard. The forearm is of type “with pump”. It carries a rich animalist engraving gilded on arabesques.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance of 1893 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

X* and AV*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Stylized lion surmounting letters PV: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

16C in a rhombus: gauge, of use from 10/4/1898 to 6/30/1924.

 

Choke 16.2/17.0 and 15.5/17.2: chokes barrels gauged in mm with 22cm of the breech and the mouth. Of use from 2/25/1910 to 6/30/1924.

 

P1Kg31,6 (read so well?): Weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons). In use from June 11th, 1892 to June 30th, 1924.

 

D=65/19,0: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. In use from 6/6/1892 to 6/30/1924.

 

M.C.C.T in a circle: punch of manufacturer of barrels for firearms not identified?

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

78672: classification of the weapon.

 

7975: classification of the gun.

 

440: on forearm, classification of workshop?

 

J F and C * in a vertical oval: it is the mark of the manufacturer of Liège JANSEN Fils & Co, street Lambert the stammerer, n° 4. This firm was registered with the ^proofhouse of Liège of 1895 with 1937. It deposited 2 patents for a rifle hammerless with central fire. The firm deposited 28 trademarks.

 

Mécanisme par la fabrique d’armes de guerre de Herstal: mechanism manufactures by the F.N. HERSTAL!!

 

GG

 

Identification 3035

 

It is about a revolver top break of the type S&W to central percussion. The opening is practiced while drawing on the higher pedal in front of the hammer. The cylinder with six shots (gauges 38?) comprises a star extractor. The long barrel is round with a hollow band superior. The grips are out of wood (walnut?) smooth and are maintained by a cross screw.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

C*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

L crowned: would it be about a manufacturer of barrels?

 

The weapon also carries some marks is:

 

FDC 440: it is the mark of the manufacturer François DUMOULIN in LIEGE (Proofhouse 1894/1968) (more complete answer on our site).

 

F with three branches: probably a mark of the manufacturer?

 

BELGIUM: without comment.

 

LI? (not very readable): marks of subcontractor?

 

GG

 

Identification 3037

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à percussion centrale, barillet à 6 à coups, canon mi rond et mi hexagonal avec guidon en demi-lune. La détente est courbe avec pontet ovale à repose à doigt. Les crossettes sont en bois  quadrillé noir (noyer ??) avec vis centrale de maintien. La crosse se termine par un anneau et sa vis de calotte.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

- ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, 1877/1893.

 

- H couronné : contremarque du contrôleur, 1853/1877.

 

Elle porte également les marques suivantes :

 

Modèle NS 1885 et NS : il s’agit des marques du fabricant ! Il pourrait s’air de :

 

- SIMON Noël, industriel, rue Fontaine, 260 à HERSTAL, auteur de 10 brevets de 1873 à 1892.

 

- SIMONIS, Nicolas, Blegny-Trembleur, auteur de 3 brevets de 1877 à 1907. 

 

8 : il s’agirait à mon sens du numéro de l’arme ?

 

MB : vraisemblablement la marque d’un sous-traitant non identifié.

 

GG

 

Identification 3039

 

In spite of the little of images, what I then to withdraw some here:

- It is about part of shotgun to central percussion of type “hammerless”. The two juxtaposed barrels, of gauge 20, are smooth. The double trigger is under trigger guard.

 

- The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

 ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, 1893/1968.

 

20 C in a rhombus: gauge, 1898/1924.

 

Peron: inspection, 1853/à our days.

 

M* and X*: countermarks from the controllers, 1877/1968.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test to the smoke-free powder, 1898/1968.

 

P.1K114: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of June 30th, 1924 at our days.

 

D= 70/17.7: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. 1892/June 30th, 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, 1852 at our days.

 

15.0 - 15.8: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. 1898/1910.

 

The weapon also following marks:

 

J.G on the barrel: probably a manufacturer of barrels of rifles which I could not identify.

 

MR engraved with the fine gold: probably the initial ones of the first owner.

 

A. GODEFROID J. LEJEUNE-FAUVE SUCCURSALLE LIEGE: In 1885, Godefroid A. shares its activity with Godefroid N. and its brother Godefroid Gustave. In 1913 the activity is taken over by Lejeune Fauvé.

 

GG

 

Identification 3043

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion and external hammers. The key of crack is of standard “Top lever”.

Locks are known as “behind”. The double trigger is under oval trigger guard. The forearm carries a kind of opening which is unknown for me. The stick in walnut is of standard “pistol - to cheek”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of tests of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

H*: countermark from the controller, 1877/1968.

 

16 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

CHOKE 16.7/16.9: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of the 25.02.1910 to the 30.06.1924.

 

The manufacturer of Liège did not leave any visible mark, it will thus remain unknown.

 

GG

 

Identification 3046

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion, hammers external and key of opening “top lever”. The barrels in fine Damas Boston are smooth and of gauge 16. The metal butt plate is with reasons in particular an eagle with the spread wings. The lock called “ahead” are engraved arabesques. The double trigger curved is under an oval trigger guard. The stick of form “pistol” is out of wood of walnut.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

16 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

M*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

16,4/17,0: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Not for ball: chokes unrifled bores. In use of 1878 to 1897. These dates are not compatible with others, I am unaware of the cause of it.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

J-B Rongé Son in Liège: manufacturer well-known inhabitant of Liège. See the site.

 

23995 and 23018: marks of manufacturing struck the weapon (guns and battery).

 

H.W: mark of manufacturer of barrels of rifles of Vesdre (Liege) not indexed.

 

GG

I you like nice belgians weapon, SEE HERE

 

Identification 3058

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion. The unrifled bores of gauge 12 are smooth and juxtaposed. Double closing with bolt is actuated by the lever between the hammers. Locks are known as “ahead”. They are decorated with animalist reasons and arabesques. The double trigger is protected by an oval trigger guard. The wood front is of type “with pump”. The stick of walnut (French?) is of standard “pistol”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, 1893/1968.

 

AB* - S* - double P reversed: countermarks from the controllers, 1877/1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12C in a vertical rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

D= 70%/20.7: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

Choke 17.6/18.3: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

P1K562, 1: weight of the barrrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) Of use of 1892 to 1924.

 

The other marks mean:

 

ACN in a circle: mark of the manufacturer of guns of rifles NEUPREZ in Liege.

 

Figures 2642 - 1679 - 52: classification of the weapon.

 

PIRLOT & FRESARD LIEGE: mark of the manufacturer of Liège of the weapon which was installed in Liege, street Saint Gilles, 95 (see our site).

GG.

 

Identification 3059

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion. The double-juxtaposed barrels are smooth and of gauge 16. The forearm is with push rod. The engraving of locks of the hammerless type is of type “melts hollow” it represents a dragon surrounded by foliage.

 

The punches, of which some are not very readable, emanate from the proofhouse of Liège, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, 1893/1968.

 

B* and J*: countermarks from the controllers, 1877/1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

16C in a rhombus: gauge, 1898/1924.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder. 1898/1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

POK997, 8: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons).

 

D = illegible: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. 1892/1924.

 

???/17.0 (Illegible): chokes barrels, gauged in mm with 22cm of the breech and the mouth. 1910/1924.

 

The weapon also carries engraved to the fine gold, marking EPREUVE A LA POUDRE PYROXILEE (Tested with powder pyroxillee), this kind of powder is a modern powder by comparison of "Black Powder".

 

The weapon does not seem to carry any marking of manufacturer,

 

GG

 

Identification 3061

 

It is about a banal pocket revolver of pin of the Lefaucheux type made in Liege in thousands of specimens. The nonalveolate cylinder with six blows is notched for the cartridges with pin. This one is accessible for the loading by the right back door. It carries an engraving of vineleaves. The barrel is round and probably striped with a front sight rectangular. The hammer is with head punt to strike the pins. The metal rod is of standard “nail”. The trigger is folding without trigger guard. The two plates seem to be out of ebony (or false-ebony) and are connected by a central screw to ears.

 

This part carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1993.

 

Z crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

It also carries a horizontal oval mark with not very readable letters

(P.D - Data base - etc??) We could not identify this manufacturer.

 

GG

 

Identification 5103

The weapon

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion and top break of type S&W.

The lock seems me to be of hammerless type although the photographs are hardly explicit in this place!! I thus have a doubt?

The opening is practiced by pressing two pedals placed on both sides console, system corresponding to a patent n° 064421 of the 8.3.1884 of Léonard WARNANT-FRANQUET (see technical drawing in appendix).

The rifled bore is round with a rectangular higher band carrying a back sight in half-moon.

The grooved cylinder is with 5 rooms of gauge 8mm.

 

Punches

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG on star in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

AR crowned: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

Marks

 

SEL under a small triangle: isn't the reading of this mark certain, that could just as easily be BEL?? This mark was not discovered in the book of markings arms manufacturers of Liège!

 

CAL 8/MM: gauge weapon.

 

L crowned: this mark should be the mark of the foundry in theory having produced this cylinder but this information could not still be confirmed.

 

396: serial number.

 

11: marking of workshop?

 

The holster

 

These weapons of average manufacture were produced in thousands of specimens for export. They were sold most of the time by batches of 100 parts. They were never accompanied by any holsters. Your specimen is not thus origin but subsequently added in the country of purchase of your weapon.

 

GG

 

 

Identification 5104

 

The weapon

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion.

The steel barrels are smooth and juxtaposed.

They with gauge 12 (18,2 mm) and are chokes.

Locks are “ahead” with hammers external and key of opening between those.

The trigger is double under trigger guard.

The stick out of wooden of walnut (?) is of type “pistol”.

 

Punches

 

The weapon is struck punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG on star in an oval under crown: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

T and V spangled: countermarks of the controllers post 1877.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

17,4: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

18.0 chokes barrels gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth.

18.0 In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

The manufacturer

 

129: should be a serial number?

 

The punches teach us that the weapon was manufactured in LIEGE between 1910 and 1924.

 

New Haven Arms is probably a trademark fictitious because it does not appear in documentation, just like the word INTERCHANGEABLE which us was already announced on the mark REGENT ARMS quite as unknown!

These fictitious denominations were not rare in LIEGE at this time, they were probably intended to mislead the customs of the countries of South America large importers of weapons of Liege. It’s also probable that the import duties were important! The traffic of weapons was currency running fine of the XIXe beginning of the XXe century.

For the small history, documentation gives a report on a mark REGENT allotted in 1913 to the manufacturer SCHNORRENBERG W & Fils street of the South, 5 in Brussels. We are unaware of if there is correlation between these elements?

 

GG

 

Identification 5105

 

L’arme

 

Il s’agit d’un pistolet à percussion centrale, à répétition manuelle et à bloc descendant qui ressemble assez fort au bien connu pistolet REFORM.

A la différence prêt qu’ici le bloc descend du haut vers le bas.

Les 4 canons sont superposés et le calibre n’a pas été communiqué, du 6,35 vraisemblablement.

Comme les poinçons l’indiquent, l’arme a été fabriquée à LIEGE. Elle ne porte aucune marque de fabricant ni de brevet ce qui semble indiquer une copie ou une adaptation.

La recherche dans les brevets est demeurée vaine.

L’arme porte une jolie gravure en fond creux représentant à gauche une couronne (royale ?) et des feuilles de chênes et à droite une croix pattée entourée de deux glaives.

Les plaquettes en bois de noyer ( ?) sont également sculptées de feuilles de chênes.

 

Les poinçons

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG sur étoile dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

Double B inversés sous une étoile : contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

 

R couronné : canons rayés, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

Les marques

 

Aucune marque de fabricant n’est visible sur l’arme.

ND – ML et FL sous une plaquette, sont des marques de sous-traitant non identifiés.

 

GG

 

Identification 5106

 

L’arme

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à canons juxtaposés.

Ces canons en damas de type OXFORD sont à âme lisse et de calibre 12 ou 17,4 mm.

Les platines sont de type « en avant », les chiens sont extérieurs, la clé TOP entre ceux-ci.

Je n’ai pu déchiffrer le motif de la plaque de couche (en corne moulée ou en gutta-percha)

 

Les poinçons

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG sur étoile dans un ovale couronné. : Acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

Perron : inspection post 1853.

 

12 C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

 

SCH surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée (Schultze),

                                                      En usage de 1891 à 1968.

 

17,4 : calibre en mm : en usage de 1889 à nos jours.

 

P 1K535, 2 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (arme lisse), en usage

                    De 1892 à 1924.

 

D = ?????? (illisible sur la photo) Longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm

                                                      Après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée.

En usage de v1892 à 1924.

 

Les marques

 

HENRI PIEPER A LIEGE : marque du fabricant, rue des Bayards à LIEGE (voir sa fiche sur le site).

 

Canon OXFORD Extra (si bien lu ?) Grand Prix de Paris 1880 : sans commentaires. 

 

Marque du chevalier BAYARD : marque du fabricant ci-dessus.

 

SPECIALE EMPLOI POUDRE BLANCHE : se disait de la poudre vive par opposition à la poudre noire.

 

GG

 

Identification 5107

 

L’arme

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale

Les canons en damas sont juxtaposés et à âme lisse.

La fermeture se fait à l’aide d’une clé placée sous le pontet de sous-garde.

Les platines sont « en arrière » et les chiens extérieurs à percuteurs apparents.

La crosse en bois de noyer ( ?) est façonnée à l’anglaise.

 

Les poinçons

 

Elle est frappée des poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG sur étoile dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

Perron : inspection post 1853.

 

M et Z étoilés : contremarques des contrôleurs post 1877.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

18.2  17.4 : canons chokés : calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse et à la bouche.

                   En usage de 1898 à 1910.

 

Période de fabrication : les poinçons ci-dessus, nous indique une période de fabrication allant de 1898 à 1910.

 

Marquages

 

SYSTEME H. ROCHATTE BREVETE A PARIS : indique que cette arme est au système ROCHATTE mais j’ignore de quoi il s’agit n’ayant pas accès aux brevets français.

 

N° 4993 : numéro de série.

 

HR dans un cercle : marque de l’inventeur.

 

Fabrication : il était très fréquent que les industriels armuriers français du XIXe siècle viennent faire fabriquer leurs armes à LIEGE ou la main d’œuvre était nombreuse, qualifié et moins cher que partout ailleurs !

 

GG

 

Identification 5108

Hello,

It is indeed a French rifle, here are the answers of the specialists.

Alain

 

Hello

It is indeed an ordinary punch of test black powder of Saint Etienne.

But I don’t know to what corresponds this 17.2.

To my knowledge, gauge 18 doesn’t exist ….

To give an idea: gauge 12 fact a little more than 18 mm (gun without choke, as the machine which undoubtedly occupies us), a gauge 16 fact a little less than 17 Misters the 17.2 COULD be a gauge 16 (with the accent on the conditional one).

As for LRE: there are thirty pages of arms manufacturers whose name starts with L… in Jarlier/Buignier: not the time of all to read!

Oscar

 

Good evening,

Rifle with percussion of the ID 1918 is a traditional piston rifle of cal 16 manufactured in Saint Etienne.

The punch of test is that in function between 1869 and 1879, which is very late for a rifle with percussion, and makes me think of a rifle export or of draft, because it is of very ordinary quality, without squares, engraving and with a barrel in iron.

The mark of gunner LRE is unknown for me.

Jacques (France)

 

 

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