Voila les réponses aux demandes d'identifications. Elles sont placées dans l'ordre de date de demande sans tenir compte de la langue.

Here are the responces about asking of identifications. They are placed in the order of date of request without holding account of the language.

 

 

Identification 2703

 

It is about a revolver of Liège manufacture of the type “BULLDOG” with central percussion and box frame of a model very common to the XIXe century.

The smooth cylinder comprises six rooms. The short and round barrel is probably striped with a front sight in half-moon. An articulated rod is placed under the barrel. The curved trigger is protected under an oval trigger guard.

The stick in nozzle of corbin consist of two plates out of wooden (Walnut?) squared and assembled by a central screw.

The loading is practiced by a side door placed on the right side of the weapon.

 

The weapon carries two punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Letter J probably crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

The weapon carry also the initial S.C on the internal face with the cylinder, is it initials of the manufacturer of the weapon or of the cylinder? I did not find anything of correspondent.

 

GG

 

Identification 2704

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse de type hammerless à percussion centrale.

La crosse en bois de noyer est de type « pistolet ».

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Li !ge, soit :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à 1968.

12C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

D = 65 m/m / 20.6 : longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1892 à 1924.

S* et AV* : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

Choke 18.4 18.7 (si bien lu ?) : canons chokés : calibrés à 22 cm de la culasse. En usage du 30 juin 1924 au 26 février 1968.

Lette minuscule « C » : si bien lu ? Il devrait s’agir de la lettre annale de 1924.

P 1 K ???? : (Marque partiellement illisible) : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage du 30 juin 1924 à nos jours.

L’arme porte également la marque de fabrique E.B dans un ovale qui appartient à la Fabrique mécanique d’armes en blanc BRAEKERS Charles & Cie fabricant d’armes rue du Crucifix, 21-39 à Herstal. Elle fut inscrite au banc d’épreuve de 1920 à 1935. Elle est titulaire de 12 brevets.

GG

 

D’autres photos d’armes de cet artisan figure dans mon premier ouvrage si cela vous intéresse !!

Voir : ICI

Alain Daubresse (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2706

 

It is about a revolver with percussion and open frame. The smooth cylinder is with 6 rooms. The barrel is with 8 sides. The loading is practiced using a lever-tamping-bar placed at the rear of the barrel in front of the cylinder. The stick not entirely visible seems to consist of two plates (wood??) finely squared. The weapon carries an engraving of foliage in hollow bottom.

 

The weapon also carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of tests of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Y crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877. The list of these controllers unfortunately disappeared for a long time (war 14/18).

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

1843: it was not use to register the dates on the weapons at the time; it most probably acts of a job number.

 

S.V or S.U: marks unknown? It could be a question of the signature of the engraver (assumption?)

 

Crowned M.G: mark of manufacturer who could belong to GUERETTE Mathieu, arms manufacturer in Liege places Saint Severin n° 65 in 1871. He is the author of two patents.

 

GG

 

Identification 2707

 

The “Howdah pistol” is the weapon of the last chance. It was vague but large calibre. It was generally intended against the deer and in particular to India at the time of hunting for the tiger when this animal tried to climb on the elephant carrying the hunters.

This weapon of English origin was copied in Liege or it was indicated on the name of “Scottish”!

It is about a juxtaposed barrel weapon of calibre 14 mm. It is striped as indicates it the punch R crowned struck the barrels. The percussion is central. The barrels rock for the loading/unloading using the lower key. The hammers are external. The two triggers are curved under trigger guard with puts back fingers. The stick out of wood (fruit-bearing?) and slightly squared. It ends in a metal cap.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liège, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to 1968.

 

Letter Q: yearly letter (not certain of its reading. 1938??)

 

The weapon also carries the mark 109 which could be the serial number. This weapon does not carry any mark making it possible to identify the manufacturer of Liège. That was very often the case for the weapons of drafts intended for export towards the Indies, Africa or the Central America.

 

GG

 

Identification 2711

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale. Les deux canons de calibre 12 sont juxtaposés. Les platines portent les chiens extérieurs. Elles sont gravées de motifs africains (village, palmiers) Le pontet porte une gravure représentant l’explorateur Charles Norton STANLEY. Ce nom est également incrusté à l’or fin sur la bande reliant les canons.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

U* D* : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

Lettre minuscule "i": lettre annale de l’année 1930.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

12-70 dans la lettre oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de douille, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

1Kg312 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près ; En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

Choke 18.3 : canons chokés, calibrés à 22 cm de la culasse, en usage du 30 juin 1924 au 26 février 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

L. VAN CAUWENBERGHE ANVERS : revendeur anversois (Ville du Nord de la Belgique) de cette pièce.

 

STANLEY : voir ci-dessus.

 

D couronné : poinçon de DELCOUR à NESSONVAUX fabricant des canons.

 

13.120 : numéro de l’arme.

 

GG

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion. The two barrels of gauge 12 are juxtaposed. Locks carry the external hammers. They are engraved African reasons (village, palm trees) the trigger guard carries an engraving representing the explorer Charles Norton STANLEY. This name is also encrusted with the fine gold on the tape connecting the barrels.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

U* D*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Small letter “i”: yearly letter of the year 1930.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12-70 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

1Kg312: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram; In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Choke 18.3: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech, of use of June 30, 1924 to February 26, 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

L. VAN CAUWENBERGHE ANTWERP: from Antwerp (City of the North of Belgium) retailer of this weapon.

 

STANLEY: see above.

 

D crowned: punch of DELCOUR with NESSONVAUX manufacturer of the barrels.

 

13.120: number of the weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2712

 

Only one photograph of the weapon, it is little!

It is about a shotgun to two unrifled bores and juxtaposed. Locks are known as “behind” with external hammers.

The stick seems to be in walnut with handle pistol.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

Double P reversed and spangled and P spangled: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

13,9: gauge (in mm) Of use of 1889 to our days.

 

I did not see the impossible to circumvent ELG* in an oval crowned or not?

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Made in Belgium: arm intended for export.

 

D crowned: mark of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles DELCOUR-DUPONT in Nessonvaux.

 

A.D. (read so well??): mark unknown probably belonging to a subcontractor.

 

GG

 

Identification 2715

AHHHHHHHHHHH................... BELLE TROUVAILLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oui de chez OUI OUI...............

C'est l'outil qui sert à fabriquer les "Cônes" de papier pour la fabrication des cartouches combustibles Mle 1866 - donc pour le Fusil "Chassepot de 11mm" et contrairement à ce que pourraient penser quelques esprits mal tournés ce n’est pas à l'usage du "Proctologue" !!!! L O L  (C'est un peut fin !!!)

Précision : le cône recouvre le projectile conique en majeur partie.

Voir plan ci-joint - il existe un autre outil du même genre pour la partie cylindrique de la cartouche (avec la charge de poudre noire).

Usage :

- On roule le papier sur le mandrin puis on le colle.

- Ensuite il est adapté avec la balle sur la partie de la cartouche.

 

Identification 2717

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse hammerless à percussion centrale de type ANSON & DEELEY. La platine est carrée. La clé d’ouverture est de type « top lever ». Les canons lisses de calibre 12 sont juxtaposés. Ils sont réunis par une bande striée avec la marque Manufacture liégeois d’armes à feu Liège à l’or fin. La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

12C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

S et X étoilés : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

  EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

P1K467, 6 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses). En usage de 1898 à 1924.

Choke 17,6/18 ? 17,6/18,5 (si bien lu ?) : canons chokés, calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse et à la bouche.

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

Manufacture liégeoise d’armes à feu Liège : entreprise sis à Liège rue du Vertbois, 54 (voir le site).

ML couronné dans un ovale : marque de cette manufacture.

145548 : numéro de l’arme.

1147 : il pourrait s’agir du n° des canons ?

ACM dans un cercle : marque du fabricant de canons de fusils que je n’ai pu identifier !

HUBERTUS : marque utilisée par cette manufacture.

Poudre blanche : par opposition à la poudre noire, il s’agit donc de poudre vive !

GG

 

Identification 2720

 

It is about a shotgun to lock hammerless with “top lever” and safety of the Galand type behind this one. The unrifled bores are juxtaposed and of gauge 12. The stick in walnut smooth is worked “pistol”. The forearm is with push rod.

 

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

AH*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke. In use of 1898 to 1968.

 

1Kg378: weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (weapons smooth) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Letter “q” tiny: yearly letter of 1938. (Year of manufacture).

 

12-70 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Choke 18.4: chokes barrels. Gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use of 1924 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Made in Belgium: without comment!

 

J.F. : mark of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles Jean FALLA in Liege. See the comments on the site.

 

404: number of rifle.

 

DH and 81: marks of workshops.

 

The weapon does not carry any mark of manufacturer, it will thus remain unknown.

 

GG

 

Identification 2722

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion of hammerless type. The unrifled bores are juxtaposed and of gauge 12. The opening is practiced using the higher key of type “Top lever”. The safety of the type “Galand” is placed just behind. The lock is square and decorated with an engraving of the type “vine”. The stick out of wooden of walnut is of type “pistol”. The foreamr is of style “with pump”. The weapon carry the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12-70 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use from June 30, 1924 at our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Y*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

18.4 CHOKE 18.3: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use from June 30, 1924 to 1968.

 

Letter y (with back): without could certainty, it act of the yearly letter of 1954?

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

1751: number of the weapon.

 

J.F.: it is about the mark of Jean FALLA manufacturer of barrels of rifles in Liege (see site).

 

NJ in an oval lying: I am unaware of his significance. It is probably about a subcontractor?

 

MARECHAL engraved on the barrels: The Who’s Who arms manufacture of Liège quotes nineteen “Maréchal”, difficult to be found there?

 

GG

 

It still remains in Belgium two or three craftsmen able to restore this weapon, the problem is the legislation as regards forwarding of the firearm!!

To make enter the weapon to Belgium it is not simple!!

Simplest would be to ask your gunsmith (a true gunsmith, not a merchant of weapons!!) to make it or to send your weapon to him in Belgium.

 

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2725

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion with two unrifled bores, juxtaposed, out of steel and of gauge 12. The two hammers are external. Behind those we find a key “Top lever” allowing the rocking of the barrels. Locks of type “ahead” and are decorated with an engraving in rollers. The stick in walnut is worked “with English”. The double trigger is protected by an oval trigger guard.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG*in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

M*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

12 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924, which gives us a date of approximate manufacture.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the powder without smoke, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

P1K514, 3: Weight of the barrel which can draw from the powders without smoke (smooth weapons). In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Choke 17,5/18.4 - 17,5/18.3: Chokes barrels, gauged in mm, to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924 what still refines the age of the weapon.

 

D= 70 M/M /20.6; Length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the powder without smoke. In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

Manufacture liégeoise d’armes à feu, société anonyme Liège Belgique: This firm was located street of Vertbois, 54 in Liege. (In reading more on our site).

 

ML crowned Special steel: type of steel used for the barrels.

 

ML crowned in a vertical oval: one of the marks of this firm.

 

GG

 

Identification 2726

 

Ce revolver Lefaucheux est de fabrication Parisienne, modèle 1854.

Le LF 1855 fait partie de la première série, culasse "chapeau chinois" et crête de chien très relevée.

Arme probablement issue d'un coffret puisque l'anneau de dragonne est absent.

Pièce fabriquée » au 9 et 9 bis de la rue Lafayette à Paris.

Arme à canon octogonal en 9 mm très probablement rayé de 4 rainures.

Date de fabrication très probablement vers la fin de l'année 1856 ou tout début de 1857.

Merieux à Poitiers est celui qui a commercialisée l'arme.

Bras inférieur de la crosse tenu par 2 vis à la carcasse, il faudra attendre le LF 307x pour voir apparaître la troisième.

Portière de chargement sans lèvre de pincement.

Mécanisme en Simple Action (armement par le chien).

Arrêtoirs sur le pourtour extérieur du barillet.

Le diamètre de la culasse est supérieur d'environ 4 mm par rapport à celle du barillet

 

Belle arme!

 

Guillaume

 

Identification 2740

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à percussion centrale malheureusement fort abîmé. L’arme est de calibre 320. Le canon vraisemblablement rayé est à 8 pans avec guidon en forme de boule. Le barillet à 6 coups est lisse. Une baguette d’extraction est maintenue sous le canon par une vis. La détente courbe est sans pontet. Le chien n’est pas équipé du système rebondissant. Les plaquettes en bois (essence ignorée) sont lisses. Elles sont maintenues au châssis par une vis centrale. Il s’agit d’un modèle très courant dans l’armurerie liégeoise. Il était fabriqué par plusieurs artisans différents et était destiné à l’exportation.

 

Cette arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

X* : contremarque du contrôleur en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également deux marquages soit :

 

CAL 320 : calibre américain correspondant au 7,65 mm.

 

LN dans un ovale non fermé sur un montant de crosse : j’ignore la signification de cette marque qui appartient à mon sens à un sous-traitant et vu qu’aucune liste des marquages des sous-traitants n’existe, difficile de répondre. Le fabricant-exportateur laissait fort rarement une marque permettant aux douanes de l’identifier !

 

Bon courage pour la remise en état !

 

GG

 

Identification 2741

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à brisure (top breaks) et à percussion centrale. Le canon est rond avec une bande supérieure rectangulaire et un guidon en demi-lune. La brisure s’opère en manipulant le bouton quadrillé placé en haut de l’arme devant le chien. Le barillet à ellipses est à 6 chambres (calibre inconnu ?). La crosse me semble être constituée de deux plaquettes lisses en bois de noyer. Elle se termine par un anneau et sa vis-pivot. L’accès au mécanisme interne dont les pièces sont numérotées de 1 à 4 se pratique en tirant le levier dépassant de l’arrière de la poignée, il faut ensuite soulever la plaque latérale. La clé démonte-ressort est visée à l’arrière d’une des plaquettes. Elle sert à immobiliser sous tension le ressort principal afin de l’extraire de son logement.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

R* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

G dans un double cercle : cette marque ne figure pas dans le recueil des marques belges ! Une telle marque a été utilisée par GULPEN Hubert, fabricant d’armes à Liège quai de l’Abattoir, n° 27. Malheureusement pour notre identification, l’intéressé était inscrit au banc d’épreuves de 1910 à 1914, ce qui ne correspond pas aux dates des poinçons d’épreuves. Peut-être peut’ on imaginer que le père Gulpen utilisait précédemment la même marque mais c’est très incertain.

 

J.B. et C.E. sur les talons de poignées : il s’agit vraisemblablement de marquages de sous-traitants. Aucune liste de ceux-ci n’a jamais été établie de sorte que l’identification est bien incertaine.

 

GG

 

Identification 2742

 

Shotgun to central percussion. The two barrels of gauge 12 are juxtaposed. The opening for the loading/unloading is practiced using a key “Top Lever” placed in top of the lock. This one is square. The forearm (not very visible on photographs) seem me to be with lever?

The trigger are double and protected by an oval trigger guard. The stick is worked “with English” in a wood of walnut.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

S*: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

12C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Choke 17.4/18.4 and 17.4/18.5: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

A.J.D. PATENT: mark DEFOURNY, Antoine Joseph, (B.E 1900/1944) who becomes then DEFOURNY A.J arms manufacture S.A. (B.E. 1944/1967) street Foxhalle with HERSTAL. He is the author of 15 Belgian patents.

 

Fini (Finished by) GASTINNE-RENETTE in PARIS: Parisian retailer of this weapon bought in Liege.

 

1086: classification of the weapon.

 

SAFE and SUR: marks of safety damascened with the fine gold!

 

GG

 

Identification 2744

 

It is about a shotgun to two Damas juxtaposed barrels of gauge 12 (18.0 mm). The hammers are external. The opening (crack) is practiced using the key “top lever” placed behind the hammmers. Locks are of type “ahead”. The weapon has two trigger placed under trigger guard. The stick in wood (Walnut?) of type “pistol”.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liège, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

12 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

L*: countermark of the controller: in use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

18.0: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

FINE DAMASCUS FINISH: indicate that the guns are manufactured in Damas.

 

WARRENTED GOV' T TEST: seem to indicate that the weapon is guaranteed by the government (but which?)

 

JANSSEN SONS & C°: mark of the manufacturer JANSSEN Fils & company, trading out of weapons, street Lambert the Stammerer, 4 in Liege (BE 1895/1937). This firm deposited 24 trademarks of which JIEFFECO and JIEFFE & Co.

 

GG

 

Identification 2748

 

It is about a shotgun to percussion (Cap and ball). The barrels are juxtaposed and in Damas. The stick is worked “with the French” and present a human and bearded head carved. Locks are of type “ahead”.

This weapon present a punch of Liège proofhouse of final acceptance (ELG* in a vertical oval) which seems me to be that which was valid 1818 to 1893. I did not see other punches of this proofhouse.

 

The weapon also presents several marks like:

 

- Figure 44: who could be his number of manufacture.

 

- Figure 8: who could be a mark of workshop.

 

- DAMAS GUN with the fine gold enters the guns: without comment.

 

Locks are marked following:

 

B. KINDIMAN (read so well?) on a face

 

And With GRONINGUE on the other face.

It is about a town of Holland where this arms manufacturer (manufacturer or retailer) resided.

As the punch of the Belgian proofhouse of Liege indicates it, I deduce from it that the barrels are of Liège. The origin of the remainder of the weapon is more dubious considering the lack of punch. The arms manufacturers of Liège sold the barrels alone or integrated into the complete weapon.

The not very readable mention on the wood (J. BERNARD or J. HENRARD) also leaves me in uncertainty. Is it of the manufacturer of the part of wood or of complete weapon?? I’m unaware of it. This stick also presents one limps with starters in the shape of shell on the typical stick of this kind of weapon.

 

J. (P) BERNARD was a manufacturer of weapons in Liege street of the Pot from Gold, 29 and was registered with the bench of tests of 1852 to 1855. It deposited a patent in 1852 for a Damas on steel.

 

HENRARD, Joseph, manufacturer of weapon in Liege, life of 1834 to 1902. It is all that I could glaner on this one?

 

Juxtaposed letters M.M. possibly belong to a subcontractor. Those, of various specialities, intervened on the weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2749

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion and top break. The two unrifled bores are juxtaposed. The locks called “ahead” are nicely engraved scenes of huntings. The system is known as “hammerless” because the hammers are invisible. The break (opening) is practiced using key “top lever” placed at the top as of locks. The stick of walnut is worked “with English”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

D*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

1Kg443: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

12-70 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of casing. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

CHOKE 18.3: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use of 1924 to 1968.

 

Small “f”: yearly letter of 1927.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

ORY & DUQUENNE IN LIEGE: Ory Charles and Duquenne J. were manufacturers arms manufacturers street Saint Laurent, 92 in Liege. They were registered with the bench of tests of 1904 to 1934.

 

LB in a cartouche: mark of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles of Liège Lambert & Bruyninckx.

 

STEEL SIEMENS MARTIN: steel used for the barrels.

 

8736: classification of the weapon.

 

ND on the barrels: probably a subcontractor (équipeurs or others?)

 

GG

 

Identification 2750

 

It is a weapon manufactured by the firm Grivolat Père & Fils (France) for South America and on the spot resold by the firm, much known and very present at Brazil at that time, Broqua & Scholberg.

This firm sold primarily Belgian weapons but also all that was presented!!

See: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20b/a%20broqua%20and%20scholberg%20gb.htm

 

And : http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20francaise/artisans%20e%20f%20g%20h%20i%20j/a%20grivolat%20pere%20et%20fils%20gb.htm

 

 

Identification 2757

 

It is about a pinfire revolver of the Lefaucheux type. The smooth cylinder is notched for the cartridges with pin. The hammer is with dish head. The curved trigger is protected from a trigger guard. The barrel is with 8 sides with a front sight “twin wheel”. A metal rod is inserted under the barrel and is maintained by a small system with blade. The stick is in walnut smooth and ends in a metal cap, a ring and its screw-pivot.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of tests of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: acceptance, of 1893 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

R*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

13: it would have acts of the number of the weapon.

 

Two cross sabers surrounded of the initial F.L.: This mark is not taken again as such in the book of the marks. It makes me think of a trade mark by Fernand Lovinfosse arms manufacturer in Liege (see site) which presents about the same mark but with two cross rifles?

 

GG

 

It’s not the mark of Francken & Lünnenschloss, the dates of the punches don’t correspond and the mark is not crowned!!

 

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2760

 

With not doubting a weapon of origin of Liège, it acts of a shotgun to juxtaposed barrels hammerless of ignored gauge (nonvisible).

The crack (opening) of the weapon is practiced using key “top lever” placed on the top of the weapon. This one also carries the mark of the Parisian arms manufacturer (dealer) GASTINNE-RENETTE A PARIS whose history is not any more to make.

The lockscalled “ahead” carry an engraving typically of Liège called “to bouquet”!

I would not say anything about the stick since it is not represented!

 

The weapon carries certain punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

U*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Choke 18.4 - Choke 18.3 (read so well?): chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of the 04.10.1898 to the 25.02.1910.

 

Isn't punch ELG* in a crowned oval visible on the weapon?

 

The barrels carry mark JNC-HY-ANDREW?? LTD TOLEDO STEEL WORKS SCHEFIELD: is the reading of this trademark dubious, but I think that it is the English company having manufactured the barrels.

 

1942: it is with my direction the number the weapon which is repeated in several places.

 

Spangled PT: it is about a mark of tests of the Parisian proofhouse for a barrels of weapon smooth and powders smoke-free.

 

The crowned ecu whose interior drawing is not readable, is unknown for me. It is probably French.

 

In short, a Belgian weapon of manufacturing, resold by a big French arms manufacturer, which was current at the time!!

 

GG

 

Identification 2763

 

It is about a pistol FN (National Factory of Herstal) - GP = Grande puissance (High power), model 1934 seems it to me; the calibre is of 9 mm parabellum.

The weapon is equipped with an adjustable rise of 50 in 50 m up to 500 m.

The plates are in walnut squared. The weapon is provided with a safety blocking the breech and a squared button behind the trigger to make fall the magazine from 13 blows.

The hammer is round and bored.

 

The weapon carries the following punches of tests:

 

Proofhouse of Liege

 

S*: countermark of the controller of the bench of tests of Liege, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Manufacture d’Armes de l’Etat (M.A.E.) (Arms factory of the State)

 

EGB in a vertical oval: mark military corresponding proof against Belgian government. (EGB : “Éprouvé Gouvernement Belge")

 

C in a square: letter of the controller of the Munitions factory of the state.

 

Markings

 

42599: classification of the weapon.

 

Partially unobtrusive mark (ACJ??) unknown mark.

 

Crown: Such as, that does not tell me anything, but with the initial ones under this crown it could be a question of a mark of inspection of the M.A.E.

 

GG

 

Identification 2764

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion and box frame. The barrel of 4 inches is octagonal with a front sight in half-moon. The cylinder is with 5 blows of gauge 320. The rod of ejection is fixed under the barrel and swivels on the system of maintenance. It can thus be introduced in turn into the cylinder.

The weapon is not photographed in entirety, thus misses precise details.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

C*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

320: gauge weapon.

 

K SCHEILLER M.NEUMANN Z. fl.G BRE (?) BERLIN SS 97: it is probably the Berliner dealer of this weapon of Liège.

 

The mark of the trigger and the mark on the stick are illegible, I am unaware of what it acts, probably of the marks of subcontractors.

 

The mark O (??) on the back of the cylinder is also unknown for me.

 

GG

 

Identification 2765

 

It is about a shotgun to percussion (capsules) of origin of Liège. The juxtaposed barrels (gauges?) were manufactured by the manufacturer of barrels Laurent LOCHET-HABRAN of Liege-Jupille (see our site). SAINT ETIENNE is a mark added subsequently by the purchaser! The stick in walnut of type “pistol” is provided with one limps with capsules representing an eagle with the spread wings (brass). The triggers are protected by a trigger guard with volutes.

 

Mark SIMBERT belongs to S.A. des Fabriques d’armes réunies (Arms factories joined together - Albert Simonis - Antoine Bertrand & Fils, street Trappé, 22 in Liege) This mark was deposited the 2/10/1904! This firm a long time manufactured weapons with percussion which it exported throughout the world and in particular South America and Africa.

 

Mark LLH belongs to the manufacturer of barrels of rifles Laurent LOCHET-HABRAN of Liege-Jupille. This mark was deposited the 2/4/1904.

 

Six marks IIIIII belong to the equipor (anonymous) who worked the weapon.

 

The weapon does not carry a date of manufacturing but the inscription of this firm to the proofhouse of Liege goes from 1901 to 1920.

 

The punches according to belong to the proofhouse of Liege, street Fond of Tawes, namely:

 

ELG + star with 5 branches in a vertical oval: acceptance, of du11 use July 1893 at our days

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

D* and R*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

18.6: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

9740: number of the weapon.

 

With regard to the missing rod, difficult to answer you but by contacting one or the other merchant of old weapons and a little chance…

 

GG

 

“SIMBERT” is the contraction of SIM(onis) and BERT(rand)!

 

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2770

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver de type "puppy" (bull-dog réduit) de fabrication liégeoise. La percussion est centrale. L’armement se pratique par la portière latérale à ressort pivotant vers le bas et placée sur le flanc droit. La baguette sous le canon est articulée. Le canon court est rond avec guidon en demi-lune. La détente est articulée et sans pontet. Le barillet à 5 cylindres est alvéolé. Le chien est de type rebondissant. La crosse est munie de deux plaquettes en bois (noyer ?) quadrillées réunies par une vis centrale.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation post 1893.

 

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

 

F et C * : contremarques des contrôleurs, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme ne porte aucune marque de fabricant ce qui rend son identification nominative impossible.

 

GG

 

Identification 2772

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse hammerless à canons lisses superposés. L’ouverture (brisure) se pratique à l’aide de la clé "top lever" placée en haut de la culasse. Une sûreté Galand est placée immédiatement derrière. Les platines sont de type "en avant" et sont abondamment gravées. La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à 1968.

 

Lettre "q" en minuscule : lettre annale de 1938 (année de fabrication).

 

AH* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à 1968.

 

1Kg018 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à ma poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

20-70 dans un oméga : calibre nominal de longueur de la douille, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

Lion ailé : il s’agit d’une des marques utilisées par l’industriel, fabricant de canons de fusils CAP Joseph, rue Jonruelle, 62 à Liège (1904/1920). L’intéressé était l’auteur de 4 brevets belges.

 

39137 : numéro de l’arme.

 

Le fabricant de l’arme proprement dite ne s’est pas identifié sur son œuvre, il restera donc inconnu !

 

GG

 

Identification 2773

 

Your Bayonet is precisely one 1777/C year IX/M 1830

I then explain ............. If the blade is parallel to the axis of the casing (?), it is a blade lengthened during the modification of the weapons the old ones calibres (Passage with the calibre of 18mm instead of 17.5) and the setting to the Standards of Rifles with Flint and Percussions smooth year 1830, which downgraded the weapons in N° 1, because the casings were to the standards of year IX (1777 modified) - the shortening of rifles in keeping with “Acrobats” required on the level of the Bayonet a longer blade (Miss 1822) and to differentiate from this one one with kept the parallelization of the blade and the casing - contrary with 1822 which decentre of its axis.

As that not of muddle considering the barrel of one 1822 or 1822 T is of a large diameter the casing of 1777 C year IX does not go up on the barrel.

 

In pictures.............

Here are two models of Bayonet.

That of the top is one 1777 C year IX and the other is the model lengthened in 1830 (N°1 rifle corrected with tulle in 1831)

 

Seen of 1777 C year IX Blade parallel with the axis of the Casing (rifle year IX of 1814)

 

Identification 2775

 

Il pourrait s’agir d’un pistolet à percussion de « grosse cavalerie » car doté d’une baguette à tête de clou, l’autre bout étant à vis ! Cependant l’arme semble être à vocation civile car elle ne porte aucune marque militaire.

Son origine est bien entendu liégeoise au vu des différents poinçons, dont il est regrettable que la plupart soient partiellement effacés par l’usure ou un entretien trop musclé.

La platine à percussion est dite « en arrière » et la contre platine est en forme de diabolo. Cette platine à 3 vis et 1 ressort à chainette porte une ou deux marques de fabricant de platines soit LG et B (si bien lu ?).

Le canon porte des marques d’équipeurs (plusieurs barres verticales ou penchées), le chiffre 10 qui pourrait être un numéro de série ?, la lettre C étoilée et un T qui pourraient être des marques de sous-trait

ant.

 L’intérieur du bois porte la marque VC (monteur à bois ?).

 La détente est courbe sous pontet.

Le canon est court avec peut-être des rayures « cheveux » mais ce n’est guère visible sur photo. Il est doté d’un petit guidon courbe.

L’arme porte plusieurs poinçons du banc d’épreuves liégeois, à savoir :

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

Bref, une arme encore en bel état, seul le peu de lisibilité (surtout sur photos) est à déplorer.

GG

 

Identification 2777

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale d’origine liégeoise. Les deux canons lisses sont juxtaposés. Les chiens sont extérieurs avec clé de brisure « top lever ». Je n’ai pu sur ces photos déterminer le type de « devant de bois » ? Les platines sont de type « en avant ». La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

X* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à nos jours.

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

LG en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

12C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

CHOKE  1,72  / ??? : Lecture  complète impossible. Elle indique que les canons sont chokés et calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse et à la bouche. Valable du 25/02/1910 au 30/06/1924.

L’arme porte également quelques marques assez difficiles à lire et donc  identifier.

690 : numérotation de l’arme.

LD ? : Lecture incertaine.

HDD ??? : Lecture tout à fait incertaine ???

CH dans un cercle : cette marque est inconnue de ma documentation, j’ai donc cherché par la logique.

Habituellement, les armuriers liégeois plaçaient le prénom avant le nom, la seule possibilité dans ce cas "serait" Charles HAAKEN (1859/1898) qui était donc actif durant la période approximative de l’arme.

 

J’ai aussi contrôlé l’hypothèse du nom avant le prénom et cela donne, toujours durant la même période :

 

COMBLAIN Hubert (1854/1891)

COURARD Herman signalé entre 1865 et 1874.

COURARD Hubert signalé entre 1864 et 1868.

 

Enfin j’ai aussi évoqué la possibilité d’une association (deux noms) mais cela ne donne rien.

Reste encore la dernière possibilité soit que la marque d’un armurier ait été reprise par le ou les successeurs (cela existe: voir Forgeron ou Bernard) mais là encore je n’ai rien découvert.

 

Désolé de ne pouvoir être plus précis, mais encore une fois l’étude de l’armurerie liégeoise du 19e siècle est loin d’être une science exacte.

 

Cordialement.

 

GG

 

Identification 2783

 

It is about a revolver “Bulldog” of origin of Liège.

The short and striped barrel is round with bead out of V and front sight in half-moon. The smooth cylinder is with 6 blows I think but it is not visible on the photographs.

It should gauge be of the 38 or 380?

 A door of loading is placed on the right side of the weapon and allows the loading cartridge by cartridge. Idem for the unloading of the casings.

The weapon is equipped with two little grips squared with central screw.

The hammer considering its position should not be of rebounding type.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of tests of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval; final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

T*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to our days.

 

The weapon carries also various not very readable marks, namely:

 

J IT JF (read so well?) on an amount of stick: it is probably about a mark left by a subcontractor of Liège.

 

LE and JD: are also marks of unknown subcontractors. These marks were never indexed and their significance was lost.

 

GG

 

Identification 2784

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil à percussion. L’unique canon est à huit pas et doté d’un guidon en quart de cercle.

Une hausse à degrés (peu visible) est placée sur ce canon. La platine est de type « en arrière » et est placée sur le flanc droit.

La détente est courbe et placée sous pontet. La crosse est taillée à l’anglaise. Une baguette métallique se glisse entre la crosse et le canon. La crosse est dotée d’une plaque de couche métallique à retour.

Les marquages ou poinçons d’épreuves ne sont pas tous biens lisibles malheureusement. Je pense identifier les marques suivantes :

 

R couronné : il pourrait s’agir d’une marque de contrôleur du banc d’épreuves liégeois en usage de 1853 à 1877 ?

 

1968 : numéro du canon ?

 

1854 : il s’agit à mon sens de la date de fabrication.

 

N° 152 : numéro de l’arme.

 

LV : signification ignorée, vraisemblablement la marque d’un sous traitant (canonnier ?)

 

J.A. PETRY : il s’agit à n’en pas douter de la marque du fabricant liégeois J.Auguste PETRY.

Il a été inscrit au banc d’épreuves de 1842 à 1867. Il a déposé un brevet belge pour la fermeture d’un fusil se chargeant par la culasse.

GG

En ce qui concerne la baïonnette, elle était peut-être "à bouchon ?"

Ou bien l'arme n'était pas à vocation militaire ?

 

Identification 2785

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à deux canons lisses et juxtaposés de type LEFAUCHEUX. Les platines sont « en arrière ». La clé d’ouverture est placée sous la sous-garde. La longuesse est dotée d’une pédale à auget. Une pièce de pouce gravée (GT) si bien lu devrait appartenir au premier propriétaire.

 

Cette arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège suivants :

 

ELG dans un ovale vertical sans couronne : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à 1893.

 

K* : contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

Ckoke : canons chokés.

 

16,0 : calibre en mm, en usage de 1889 à nos jours.

 

L’arme porte étalement les marques suivantes :

 

6899 – 9959 : numérotation de l’arme (fabricant et fabricant de canons).

 

DGT (si bien lu) sur les canons : signification inconnue.

 

DS couronné : signification inconnue (un sous-traitant ??)

 

GG

 

Identification 2787

 

It is about a shotgun to VERTICAL percussion (Pinfire) and two Damas juxtaposed barrels of system LEFAUCHEUX to two keys. The hammers are in the shape of fish and two locks are of type “behind”. The trigger guard with volutes protects the two triggers. The stick in walnut is worked with English.

 

The weapon carries two punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

17.4: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries several marks is:

 

J. JAMAIN LIEGE: they are in my humble opinion the mark the manufacturer of barrels but I could not find his coordinates.

DAMAS LECLERE: it is the type of Damas used for the manufacturing of the barrels. Damas LECLERE was one of most famous.

1457 (read so well?): it is the classification of the weapon.

The name of the manufacturer of the weapon in itself is not reproduced on the weapon as that was often the case at the time.

 GG

For the Damas, to see:

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20l/a%20leclere%20gb.htm

Alain

 

Identification 2790

 

It is of a shotgun to percussion whose stock is carved “French” i.e. about a human head!

Locks are known as “ahead”. The two barrels are in Damas of gauge 18.6 mm. The forearm seem to me be with button?

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the bench of tests of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Perron: inspection, of use of 1853 to 1893.

 

18.6: gauge.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

T crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

148: classification of the weapon?

 

The manufacturer

In spite of an obliteration partial of the mark, it could be a question of the gunmaker of Liège SCHEPERS, Francois, registered with the proofhouse of Liège of 1844 to 1860. It had domiciled in LIEGE Mont Holy Martin, 54. From 1857 to 1860, it deposits 10 patents relating to locks.

GG

 

Identification 2793

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à six coups (calibre ?) et à culasse basculante. Cette arme a fait l’objet du brevet 020669 du 21.10.1866 en annexe.

Cette arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

X couronné : poinçon réglementaire du contrôleur, en usage de 1852 à 1893.

L’arme porte la marque H.ORTMANN INVteur BREVETE  sur la carcasse côté gauche de l’arme.

L’inventeur ORTMANN Hermann fabricant d’armes à Liège rue d’Amay, 13 puis Bd d’Avroy, 74 était inscrit au banc d’épreuves de 1865 à 1879.

Il dépose cinq brevets d’inventions armurières de 1866 à 1887 et notamment pour un système de revolver à culasse basculante, un système de revolver à 7 coups à percussion centrale, un système de fermeture applicable aux revolvers.

L’intéressé dépose également cinq marques de fabrique soit «  The Thunderer – The new american model – Le foudroyant – Exposition universelle 1878 – The defender american model of 1878 – The Lincoln american model. 

GG

 

Identification 2794

 

This Mauser model 1924 is “after the war”, as one sees it well with the buttplate.

This rifle was manufactured after war, in particular for the ABL (Armed Belgian) in .30. And also in .22 for the training.

But also for other countries, and thus in other calibres (7 mm mauser Spanish, 7.92 and so on).

When these rifles were produced for the ABL, one normally finds either a L (of Léopold III, therefore until 1950), or the B of Baudouin. On this weapon there is NOTHING.

Don't I manage to me to find there in the punches on the barrel or the breech left side, do I see a species of??? 2006 cat. 222 or something in the photo 15. Mystery, also for photograph 16.

I find also curious the two holes masked behind the front sight (photo 2).

Perhaps is this a demilitarization “old standards”!?

Oscar

 

Identification 2797

 

It's about a shotgun hammerless to central percussion of type ANSON & DEELEY. Locks are of type “ahead” and carry a light engraving. The key of opening is of standard “Top Lever ”. The hammers are external. The unrifled bores of gauge 24 are juxtaposed. They are joined together by a striated band. The stick out of wood of walnut is worked “pistol”.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Perron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

L spangled: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

24.65 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Choke 14.8 and 14.7: choke barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth.

 

Letter "e" underlined: yearly letter of 1966 (?).

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

ML: Manufacture liégeoise d’armes à feu, company located in Liege street of Vertbois, 54 (see the website).

 

ML crowned in a vertical oval: idem above.

 

148520: number of the weapon.

 

ACM in a circle: mark of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles which I could not identify!

 

GG

 

The letter of the year 1966 give us a big problem because firm ML existed only until 1929!!

Alain Daubresse

 

Identification 2798

 

It is about a shotgun to two barrels "in table". Not having seen on the interior of these barrels and within sight of marking, I think that they are rifled. The lock hammerless is square. Safety is of type “with slide” with an S (safety) out of gold. The stick of walnut is incomplete on the photographs, it is either with “pistol stick” or “English”.

 

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853 until our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

AD*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

"g" lower-case: yearly letter of 1928.

 

EL in English letters on the barrels: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

35W blindées (Armor-plated): rifled bore of gauge higher than .22 for lined balls. In use of 1910 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

1843: it would act with my direction of the serial number of this weapon.

 

J B crowned: it would be the trademark of the arms manufacturer Jules BURY, Lemonnier passage, 11-13 in Liege. Registered voter with the proofhouse of Liège of 1896 to 1947. The company is taken again by Charles Masquelier in 1964.

 

FN in an oval lying: This mark resembles very extremely a mark of the FN (National Factory with Herstal). Placed on the barels, it would indicate that they were manufactured by this factory. It is of course only assumption.

 

GG

 

Identification 2800

 

They are here two pairs of guns with percussion! I treat them one by one.

(1) Pistol with percussion and grip “worsens”

Two back lock pistols (at three points) with percussion and double unrifled bores juxtaposed in Damas. They are fixed “at drawer”! The gauge is not indicated.

The stick in walnut squared is of style worsens with limps with capsules in the shape of shell. The trigger is curved under trigger guard with volutes. The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

Letter "q" into tiny and crowned: countermark of the controller. (1846-1893)

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Number 114 could be, obviously, the classification of the weapon.

 

Initial L E (subcontractor) are unknown for me?

 

Couldn't I either identify the mark (of factory) in round letters (LX - different LH? Afflicted.

 

(2) Pistols with percussion and stick “banana”

This pair is with only one barrel with 8 sides in Damas. This barrel carries a metal rectangle of fixing. It gauge is ignored. The lock with percussion is of type 3 points. The weapon carries a metal rod without ornaments. The trigger guard with simple volute protects the curved trigger. The front sight is in half-moon.

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

N and Q crowned: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries (partially unobtrusive) following:

 

561: serial number.

 

HL (read so well): it is probably about a trademark which does not appear unfortunately in my documentation.

 

GG

 

Identification 2801

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse de type hammerless. Les deux canons sont juxtaposés. L’ouverture  (brisure) se pratique à l’aide de la clé « top lever » placée en haut de la crosse. Une sûreté à glissière de type « Galand » est également posée derrière la clé. La platine est carrée. La longuesse est « à pompe ». La platine porte une gravure animalière en fond creux.L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

U* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

12-7O dans la lettre grecque oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

1Kg281 : Poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

Lettre minuscule "a" : il s’agit d’une lettre annale datée de 1922, j’ignore pourquoi cette date ne correspond pas aux autres poinçons ??

 

Choke 18.6 - 18.5 : canons chokés, calibré à 22 cm de la culasse, en usage de 1924 à 1968.

 

D’autre part, l’arme porte gravées sur le canon, les marques (non entièrement lisibles) de :

 

JANSSEN FILS & C° : commerçants en armes à Liège, rue Lambert Le Bègue, 4. Ils furent inscrits au banc d’épreuves de 1895 à 1937. 24 marques déposées.

 

SIEMENS MARTIN STEEL FALL ???? : Marque partiellement illisible. Il s’agit de la marque d’acier utilisée par le fabricant de canons de fusils.

 

GG

 

 

Identification 2802

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse de type « hammerless » avec platine carrée et clé top lever ! Les canons sont juxtaposés et lisses de calibre 12. La crosse est façonnée à l’anglaise. Le pontet protège une double détente.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

12C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

P* et R* : contremarques des contrôleurs, eb usage de 1877 à 1968.

D= 70/20.6 : longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée. En usage de 1892 à 1924.

P = 1K290 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (armes lisses) au gramme près. En usage de 1924 à nos jours.

CHOKE 17.3/18.3 et 17.5/18.3 : canons chokés, calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse et à la bouche. En usage de 1910 à 1924.

L’arme porté également les marquages suivants :

LIEGE SPECIAL  E. BERNARD : type d’arme et fabricant soit BERNARD E &  Cie rue Mont St Martin, 54 de 1900 à 1935.4 brevets déposés sur la période.

GG

 

Identification 2808

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion and two unrifled bores and juxtaposed of gauge 12. The break (opening) is practiced using key “Top Lever” placed on the upper part of the weapon. The stick in walnut is worked with English.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

E*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

1.72: incomplete punch???

 

NOT FOR BALL: chokés unrifled bores, of use of 1878 to 1897.

 

The barrels in beautiful Damas are juxtaposed and marked “J.ANCION & Co LIEGE”. It is the mark Jacques Ancion & Co, Liege 1886/1887, author of two Belgian patents.

GG

This weapon goes back to before the time or the proofhouse of Liege affixed a letter of the year of manufacturing, one cannot thus know the exact date.

But Jacques Ancion exerted only two years, therefore your rifle was manufactured in 1886 or 1887.

Alain Daubresse

 

Identification 2809

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à 6 coups. La détente est en anneau. Le chien est intérieur. La crosse se prolonge jusqu’au barillet pour recouvrir le mécanisme de percussion. Une large entaille dans le bouclier facilite le placement des amorces. Le canon à pans est monté en clavette et muni d’organes de visée.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

U couronné : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1963.

 

L’arme porte également la marque de son inventeur, soit J.J. RISSACK BREVETE. L’intéressé était armurier à Herstal (Liège). Il est l’auteur de 22 brevets belges de 1847 à 1869. (Voir le site). L’arme d’origine était de calibre 8,5 mm, d’une longueur de 267 mm et pesait 580 grammes.

GG

Nous ne possédons aucun document qui pourrait nous permettre de différencier les modèles de cette arme, désolé !

 

Identification 2810

 

Il s’agit de la copie liégeoise d’un COLT Navy 1851. Il est malheureusement bien abimé et certaines des marques sont très difficiles à lire.

L’arme porte les marques suivantes :

Adress Col. Samuel COLT NEW-YORK USA : il s’agit vraisemblablement d’une marquée inventée à Liège pour faire plus vrai.

32 Calibre : si bien lu ? Calibre de l’arme.

Illisible ARMS C° : marque illisible.

20918 : numéro de l’arme.

F* et C* : contremarques des inspecteurs du banc d’épreuves liégeois. Je pense avoir également vu un Q* à classer dans les marquages d’épreuves.

J N E entre flèches croisées : marque de fabrique ? En toute éventualité, elle pourrait appartenir au marchand austro-turc de Colts liégeois type Brooklyn-Bridge NIKITIS ERBEN (1860/1880).

NN + ce qui semble être une fleur : ???

GG

 

Identification 2811

 

The New Police was developed for use by the police, in replacement of the old "Cop and Thug" single action model. It is the

second pocket size double action revolver issued by Colt.

It was introduced in 1896, and a target model followed in 1897. Both models were discontinued in 1905 and succeeded by the Police Positive

model, which had an improved inner mechanism. A total of about 49.500 were produced, which is relatively small. Collectors will discover that

this model is quite hard to find.

 

The story goes that serial# 1 was submitted to T. Roosevelt for trial when he was head of the New York City Police Board (1895-97).

The New York Police Dept purchased over 4,500 specimens, all marked "NEW YORK POLICE" on the backstrap.

 

 The gun was available in three calibers: .32 Colt short and long, .32 S&W shert and long, and the specially for that revolver developed

.32 New Police, which used a heavier bullet and a more powerful charge of powder than the usual .32, which gave it more "stopping power".

Either blued or nickel finish were available.

 

The revolver is practically identical to the New Pocket Model, except for the longer grip. It is very light (17 ounces with a 4" barrel).

The cylinder turns counterclockwise. The early models were equipped with plain wooden grips, soon followed by checkered hard rubber grips with the name

COLT in an oval at top.

 

Marcel

 

Identification 2812

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion of gauge 12 of Liège manufacturing. The unrifled bores are juxtaposed. The system is of type “hammerless”. The wood known as “pistol” is in walnut.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the bench of tests of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

12C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Peron: acceptance, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

S* and R*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Choke 17.4/18.2 and 17.7/18.2 (subject to a good reading): choke barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

LB in a horizontal oval: mark of the manufacturer of guns of rifles LHERMITTE & BRUYNINCK in Liege.

 

A&R in a rhombus: subcontractor not identified.

 

25499: serial number.

 

37 on several parts: number of the weapon?

 

PT*: unknown subcontractor.

 

BS on the barrels: mark of a subcontractor of the barrels not identified.

 

GG

 

Blois is a city of the French department of the Loir-et-Cher. In the south-west of Paris

Alain

 

Identification 2816

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion. It is equipped with two juxtaposed unrifled bores. The system is of type “hammerless”. Locks are known as “ahead”. They are engraved scenes of hunting. Safety is of type “Galand”. The forearmt is with pump. The stick in walnut is worked "with English".

It carries punches of the proofhouse of Liège, i.e.:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Letter Q *: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1963.

 

1Kg337: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1898 to 1968.

 

Greek letter Y: yearly letter which could be 1954??

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12-70 in a large omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

CHOKE 16.4 18.4: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech, of use of 1924 to 1968.

 

The weapon carries following markings:

 

ACIER SPECIAL A HAUTE RESISTANCE (HIGH-STRENGTH SPECIAL STEEL): without comment.

 

Fabrique Nationale d’armes de guerre – Herstal Belgique: manufacture from where this weapon is originating.

 

FR3213: classification of the weapon.

 

DEMI-BLOC: system invented by the F.N.

 

GG

 

Identification 2818

 

It is about a rifle of the type “ROLLING BLOCK” invented by brothers REMINGTON. This system was already largely described on our site (see Nagant). This weapon doesn't however carry any explicit marking of manufacturer. The cartridge presented resembles furiously the 11 mm Remington to ball lead!

 The origin is however without question of Liège as the punches of the proofhouse of Liège attest :

ELG* in a crowned oval: acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore of use of 1894 to our days.

 

L*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection of 1853 to our days.

 

12.1: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

Letters EL in cursive: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries following markings:

1875: it is perhaps the date of manufacturing (without certainty?).

 

12441: classification of the weapon.

 

TTN - OK - AN H: not identified subcontractors?

 

GG

 

Identification 2819

 

Il s’agit donc d’un fusil de chasse à 2 canons lisses juxtaposés, les platines en arrières à broche sont de type Lefaucheux tout comme la double clé d’ouverture. La crosse de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise. Le pontet est à volutes.

Il porte les poinçons du Banc d'épreuves de Liège soit :

ELG étoilé dans un ovale : acceptation de 1846 à 1893.

M couronné : contremarque du contrôleur de 1852 à 1877.

EL en lettres cursives : épreuve provisoire de 1852 à nos jours.

Perron : inspection de 1853 à nos jours.

Le fabricant :

Il s’agit vraisemblablement d’Ernest BERNARD de Liège, adresse ignorée, qui a déposé deux brevets en 1862 et 1864.

La marque E.B. couronnée dans un ovale pourrait être la sienne.

Il s’agit d’un système LEFAUCHEUX à deux clés inventé par ce dernier dans les années 1850, il a donc été copié par cet armurier liégeois non identifié sur l’arme si ce n’est éventuellement  l’armurier ou sous-traitant usant de la marque JN couronné, marque qui m’est inconnue ?

Il ne s’agit en tout cas pas de Emile BERNARD, qui lui est largement postérieur (1900/1935).

 

GG

 

Identification 2821

 

Il s’agit sans conteste d’un revolver de type MONTENEGRIN fabriqué à LIEGE par un armurier non identifié. Pas de marque du fabricant ! L’arme est à percussion centrale et le calibre n’est pas indiqué ? Du 9 mm peut-être ? Le canon est long (8 ou 10 pouces) et rond. Il est également rayé. Son guidon est triangulaire. La crosse est de type banane. Elle porte des plaquettes en os me semble t’il ? Elle se termine par un anneau est sa vis-pivot.

Cette arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à nos jours.

 

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

 

AR* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également un L couronné qui n’appartient pas au banc d’épreuves semble-t’ il ? Il pourrait éventuellement s’agir d’une marque du fabricant de barillet ?

 

GG

 

It acts without question of a revolver of the type MONTENEGRIN made in Liège by an arms manufacturer not identified. No mark of the manufacturer! The weapon is with central percussion and the calibre is not indicated. Perhaps 9 mm? The barrel is long (8 or 10 inches) and round. It is also striped. Its front sight is triangular. The stick is of standard banana. It carry plates in bone seems me. It ends in a ring is its screw-pivot.

 

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to our days.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

AR*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

the weapon also carry a L crowned which does not belong to the proofhouse. Could it possibly be a question of a mark of the manufacturer of barrel ?

 

GG

 

Identification 2822

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à percussion verticale de type Lefaucheux de calibre 7mm semble-t’ il ? Le canon à 8 pans est rayé et porte un guidon en grain de riz. Le chien est à tête plate conçu pour les cartouches à broche. La détente est repliable sous la console. La baguette est fixée dans la carcasse. Le barillet est cranté façon Lefaucheux et est gravé de bouquets floraux. La crosse est constituée de deux plaquettes en os me semble-t’ il ? L’alimentation se pratique par la portière latérale droite.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1818 à 1893.

 

Lettre Q couronnée : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1853 à 1877.

 

L’arme ne semble porter aucune marque de fabricant liégeois, cela était souvent le cas pour ces armes de grandes diffusion vouées à l’exportation !

 

GG

 

 

Is it about a revolver with vertical percussion (Pinfire) of Lefaucheux type of calibre 7mm seems it? The barrel with 8 sides is striped and carries a front sight in grain. The hammer with head punt is designed for the cartridges with pin. The trigger is folding under the console. The rod is fixed in the carcass. The cylinder is notched Lefaucheux way and is engraved floral bouquets. The stick consist of two plates in bone seems to me it? The loading is practiced by the right side door.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1818 to 1893.

 

Letter Q crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

The weapon does not seem to carry any mark of manufacturer of Liège, that was often the case for these weapons of large diffusion dedicated to export!

 

GG

 

Identification 2826

 

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type to central percussion. The weapon operates using the key “Top Lever”. The weapon is equipped with a safety of the type “Galand”. A part of inch (virgin of inscription) is placed at the bottom of the English stick in walnut. The barrels of gauge 12 are juxtaposed.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance of 1893 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

V*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Stylized lion surmounting letters PV: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

12-70 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use of June 30th, 1924 at our days.

 

Choke 18.3: chokes barrels. Gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use from June 30th, 1924 to February 26th, 1968.

 

1Kg5?? : Weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of June 30th, 1924 at our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

D crowned: it is the trademark of gunners DELCOUR-DUPONT in Nessonvaux (see the site).

 

91131: classification of the weapon.

 

J F and C°: it is the mark of the manufacturer of Liège JANSEN Fils & Co, street Lambert the stammerer, n° 4. This firm was registered with the proofhouse of Liège of 1895 to 1937. They deposited 2 patents for a rifle hammerless with central fire. The firm deposited 28 trademarks.

GG

 

Identification 2827

 

It is about a shotgun to pinfire type Lefaucheux, barrels juxtaposed in (false) Damas, stock in walnut (?) imitation American walnut tree, trigger guard with festoons, locks “behind”, tested with St Etienne and of gauge 12 (the figure 17.2 on one of the barrels indicates the diameter of this last to height of the choke, and such a figure corresponds to gauge 12).

Barrels manufactured by E*G not identified.

L =??

G =??

SEYVE J = SEYVE Jean, gunner, street of Low Vernay, 23 in Saint Etienne, around 1868.

Punch of the National proofhouse of Saint-Etienne.

17.2 = internal diameter of the barrel which corresponds almost to a gauge 14.

In short, it would be about a French production located, undoubtedly, in the third quarter of the 19th century.

 

 

Identification 2828

 

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type. The key of opening is of type “Top Lever”.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

X*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1898 to 1968.

 

12 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

D = 70 m/m /20.7: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

Choke 17.5/18.4: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

NF in an oval lying: this mark wasn't found in file, in any assumption it could possibly act of the arms manufacturer of Liège Noël FRANSQUET (see the website).

 

12754: classification of the weapon.

 

CHRISTOPHE L.: gunsmith in Brussels Gallery of the Queen around 1912. It is him who sold the weapon.

 

Garanti pour poudre sans fumée (Guaranteed for smoke-free powder): this mark is in fact a publicity.

 

GG

 

Identification 2829

 

It is about a revolver of the type “BULLDOG” of origin of Liège. The percussion is central. The gauge is of 450. The cylinder is with 6 shots. The barrel with sides is striped, it carries a front sight in half-moon. The cartridge supply is practiced by the door (pretense missing) right back. The curved trigger is placed inside an oval trigger guard. The squared plates seem to be in walnut. They are joined together by a central screw.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liège, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

M*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

450: gauge nominal.

 

33: it could be a question of the number of the weapon.

 

WEBLEY: this mark was struck the barrel in a rather disordered way. It is absolutely not the mark of the famous English manufacturer!

It is extremely possible which this weapon was recently chrome because it does not seem to present any trace of wear.

The weapon does not carry any mark making it possible to identify its manufacturer, it will thus remain anonymous, which was very current at the time.

 

GG

 

Identification 2931

 

It is about a revolver top break of the type S&W. The opening is practiced by raising the cylinder placed on the top of the weapon. The barrel is with 5 blows of ignored gauge. The cylinder is striped and equipped with a front sight in half-moon. Both grips do bakelite seem to be out of, they also carry an illegible monogram which could be the initial ones of the manufacturer of Liège??

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Spangled AK: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries trademarks of the many unknown subcontractors, namely:

 

C crowned: could it be a question of the mark of a manufacturer of barrel??

 

JBP in an oval lying could be one of the two craftsmen below:

 

- PAULUS, J.B street Marie-Louise Naveau with JUPILLE.1 patent in 1828?

 

- PAULUS, Jean (BE 1924/1929) street J.Hermesse, 69 in Jupille. FROM 1904 à1926, it deposits 6 patents.

This last could be appropriate but I do not have anything to confirm this possibility!

 

LL - NR in a circle - letter a: it also acts of markings of not identified subcontractors.

 

GG

 

Identification 2933

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale et canons juxtaposé de calibre 28 (14,4 mm). La platine est carrée et la clé de brisure (ouverture) « Top lever ».La crosse en noyer est de type « pistolet ».

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

G* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1853 à 1968.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

28-65 dans un oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de douille, en usage du 30 juin 1924 à nos jours.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

Lettre 0 barré : lettre annale, année ??

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

91178 : numérotation de l’arme.

 

J F & C° : marque du fabricant liégeois JANSSEN Fils & C° rue Lambert le Bègue, 4. BE 1895/1937)- Voir le site pour plus de renseignements.

 

GG

 

Identification 2934

 

It is about a rifle of the type MARTINY HENRY (calibres been unaware of?) manufactured in Liege as the punches of tests attest some below. Except error of my share, it could be a question of the model “sporting files” using cartridge 577/450

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG * in a vertical oval: final acceptance of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

Z*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

This weapon does not carry any mark unfortunately making it possible to identify the manufacturer.

 

GG

 

Identification 2935

 

Is it about a pistol flintlock type “Navy hollando-Belgian” (1815/1830) with civil destination because he doesn't it carry any Belgian military punch nor Dutch seems it?

This weapon was already identified on our site (See Belgian lawful weapons) with in particular crowned mark DN of the manufacturer not identified.

The present weapon presents several markings, namely:

 

S and Cie: it is probably about a mark of manufacturer or of subcontractor (not identified)

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

N crowned: countermark of the controller of the proofhouse, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

JB: marks of subcontractor (Manufacturer of barrels?) not identified.

 

Anchors of navy with two partially unobtrusive letters (D C??): This mark probably belongs, but without certainty, at firm O.P. Drissen & Co.

 

The weapon carry punch ELG* in a vertical oval of the proofhouse of Liège meaning its final acceptance of use of 1818 to 1893. That gives us an invaluable indication on its origin.

Afflicted to be able to be more precise.

I am taking of any information concerning this weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2936

 

It is about a revolver not identified with central percussion. The cylinder with 6 shots is smooth (full) the trigger guard is with volutes. The barrel is round with half-round front sight. The grips are in walnut squared. The round rod with head is maintained in a system with spring under the barrel.

 

The weapon seems to carry only one punch of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

The weapon carries also various marks, that is to say:

 

BDF on the barrel: not identified (manufacturer of the barrel?)

 

JD: not identified (unknown subcontractor?)

 

DG (read so well?): initial of the manufacturer not identified?

 

11: number of the weapon.

 

The gun carries following engraving “F. CLAUDIN Bté to Paris, data base of the Italians, 38. Celebrate Parisian arms manufacturer.

 

Afflicted to be able to be more precise.

 

GG

 

Identification 2949

 

Il s’agit d’une carabine genre "WARNANT" dite de "sport" de calibre 22 Flobert. Le pontet est à volutes. Le chien extérieur et le guidon (tenon mortaise) de type trapézoïdal. La crosse est vraisemblablement en "fruitier".

Cette arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive port 1893.

 

Perron : inspection, valable de 1853 à nos jours.

 

UA* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

FL22 : calibre de l’arme (Flobert 22).

 

Marque représentant un lion dressé sur ses postérieurs et tenant un mat à drapeau avec l’indication ACIER FIN. Cette marque ne figure pas dans ma documentation.

GG

 

Identification 2950

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale et deux canons lisses juxtaposés de calibre 16. Le système est de type "hammerless" avec d’ouverture "top lever". Les platines sont dites "en avant" et sont gravées d'arabesques ainsi que la marque FORGERON. Bien que non complètement visible, la crosse me semble être façonnée "à l’anglaise".

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

AB* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

16-65 dans un oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

 

Lettre g en minuscule : lettre annale de 1928.

 

CHOKE 17.0 et 16.3 (si bien lu ?) : canons chokés, calibrés à 22 cm de la culasse. En usage de 1924 à 1968.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

6733 : numérotation de l’arme.

 

Fait pour M. VOUZEBAUD (si bien lu ?) premier propriétaire de l’arme.

 

BROU : j’ignore la signification de cette gravure, peut-être s’agit ’il de l’endroit de résidence du propriétaire ??

 

A. FORGERON : il s’agit du fabricant liégeois FORGERON Alphonse, rue Adolphe Borgnet, 5 à Liège. Il était inscrit au banc d’épreuves liégeois de 1880 à 1932. L’entreprise a été reprise en 1932 par BOULANGER, Joseph, rue St Léonard, 492/494.

 

ACIER COMPRIMé CAP – Tête d’aigle : CAP Henri, Joseph était fabricant de canons de fusils, à Liège rue Jonruelle, 62. L’intéressé était titulaire de 4 brevets d’inventions.

 

GG

 

Identification 2951

 

It is about a revolver of the type “BULL DOG” with central percussion. Calibre 6,35mm. The rifled bore is with 8 sides and carries a front sight in half-moon. The trigger is folding without trigger guard. The rod is folding under the barrel. The stick carry two plates not of origin, are they rather coarsely cut in a wood not identified and are maintained by two screws each one !!

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liège, that is to say:

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

C*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon carries the following marks:

 

A crown + F.A.R. Patented system: Fabrique d’Armes Réunies S.A. Street Trapped, 22 in Liege. Registered trademark 29.12.1910.

 

4268: classification of the weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2952

 

It is about a rifle of living room or garden with central or annular percussion (nonvisible on the request?). The lock is of type WARNANT. The barrel is with 8 sides. The English stick seem me to be out of fruit-bearing wood.

 

The weapon carries punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: (read so well?) final Acceptance of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

C*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

C. CLEMENT LIEGE: mark from the manufacturer Charles Clément, street Chéri, 37 in LIEGE. Activity of 1883 to 1912. Author of 35 improvement and patents. He will also deposit 14 trademarks (see the site).

 

LLA Or H? : In any assumption marks of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles Laurent LOCHET HABRAN of Jupille.

 

ML: Does assumption mark of the dealer Manufacture liégeoise d’armes à feu??

 

GG

 

Identification 2954

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil à silex à un coup. Le canon est à huit pans. La platine est de type « en avant » et la contre platine à deux vis. Le chien est en col de cygne. La crosse semble être en bois de fruitier ?

L’arme ne porte aucun poinçon d’épreuves.

La platine porte la mention Jacques VALET à LIEGE.

Sur le site il y a un J. Valet, cela pourrait être Jean, Jacques ou Joseph, c'est impossible à dire. On ne peut pas savoir s'il s'agit du même ou pas !

La mention "A Liège" ne nous aide pas non plus puisqu'il s'agit d'une arme du 18ième que la Belgique n'existe qu'à partir de 1830!!

La mention HDL frappée sur le canon appartient vraisemblablement au fabricant de canons de fusils originaire de la vallée de la Vesdre (entre Liège et Verviers) mais il ne figure pas non plus sur la liste des canonniers !?

Appel est lancé à nos lecteurs pour l’éventuelle identification de cet armurier liégeois du 18e siècle ?

GG

 

Identification 2960

 

Il s’agit d’une carabine fabriquée à Liège à 1 coup de type Gewehr 88 à percussion centrale. Le canon long est de calibre 10,4 mm. Le chargement/déchargement se pratique à l’aide d’un verrou. La crosse (bois ?) est de type pistolet. (Le fusil à répétition Gewehr 1888 fut adopté par l'Allemagne en remplacement du Mauser 71/84. Il fut remplacé en 1898 par le Mauser Gewehr 98.C'est le premier fusil à tirer la 7,92 mm Mauser)

 

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à 1968.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

AF* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

 

12M(S ?) dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

 

10,4 : calibre en mm, en usage de 1889 à nos jours.

 

Les 3 barres différemment positionnées sont des marques d’équipeurs. Ceux-ci marquaient leurs pièces presque en chiffres romains.

L'artisan qui l'a fabriquée n'ayant laissé aucune trace il restera inconnu !

 

GG

 

Identification 2962

 

In the years 1850-1860, there was in Birmingham a certain John Plumb Clabrough, arms manufacturer, who travelled in all USA and installed one or two workshops, inter alia in San Francisco. It then returned to England, and later his son joined Johnstone and still another fellow, also arms manufacturers, who took again his business.

Is it about this Johnstone?

I cannot affirm it, but that could explain the American origin of the guns.

The company Clabrough & Johnstone was known for their conversions into small gauge of rifles Lee Enfield and Lee Metford.

To read in detail :

http://www.shootingsportsman.com/j-p-clabrough/

 

The top of the barrel is marked “Johnstone - Pittsburgh”, but it was tested in Birmingham, since it carries the punch (law of 1813) 2 cross sceptres + crown+ letters BPC and the indication of the calibre in a rhombus. With my opinion, this weapon must date from the beginning of the years 1900 (the Calbrough-Johnstone firm seems to have existed until 1925 (Approximately). The wood was also repaired by a manufacturer of cans (instead of resticking with wood pin). I did not find other details up to now.

If one looks in Flayderman, pages 745 and following, one finds the list of the American manufacturers of “damascus double”, but not trace of Calbrough nor of Johnstone. This rifle resembles those done by Ithaca (style of the hammers), but that wants nothing to say.

 

Marcel

 

Identification 2963

 

The part that you have is a rare weapon, it's pity that it is not in very good conditon but perhaps that a restoration in the respect of its age made by a professional could return a better aspect to him!?

This weapon is not the system Martini-Henri, but the system Martini-Francotte, it is Francotte which modified the system Martini, very complicated to dismount, while making it very simple to dismount and to clean!

The mention “Machine made by A. Francotte &Cie” means that it is one of the first weapons which was manufactured with the machine, and not manually. That made it possible Francotte to manufacture weapons whose parts were interchangeable, which did not exist at the time.

This weapon was manufactured at the end of the 19th century.

The marking "Fait pour MR. ED. Wenig St. Petersburg" means “Made for Mister ED. Wenig St Petersburg”. It is thus an order this people (Perhaps a gunsmith).

Here is herewith the whole of the plans and explanation of this weapon.

 

Identification 2965

 

 

It is about a pinfire pocket revolver of the type LEFAUCHEUX manufactured per thousand in the area of Liege at that time. The cylinder is smooth and probably with 6 shots. The trigger is curved without trigger guard. The plates of grips joined together by a screw are smooth. The rifled bore is with eight sides without front sight (lost?) the hammer is with head punt for cartridges with pin. The rod is also missing?

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

AR coupled and spangled: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

4863: probably the serial number?

 

ZTB: it is probably about a trademark. It is not known in Liege. It has, in any assumption, struck by the dealer not identified!

 

GG

 

Identification 2966

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion (cap and ball) fabriqué par la société CENTAURE à LIEGE dans les années 1960/1970. Ces reproductions ont eu un certain succès à l’époque. Les canons en acier sont juxtaposés et lisse, ils sont de calibre 18 mm qui correspond à du calibre 12. Les chiens sont extérieurs et destinés à frapper les amorces (capsules) posées sur les cheminées. Les platines sont de type « en avant ». La double détente est sous pontet. Une baguette métallique est maintenue sous les canons. La crosse façonnée à l’anglaise est en hêtre, le hêtre est nettement moins chers que le bois utilisé pour les armes de qualité qui était toujours le noyer.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

ELG dans un ovale vertical non étoilé : canons bouchés, en usage de 1893 à nos jours.

 

18. O : calibre en mm, en usage de 1889 à nos jours.

 

154 : numérotation de l’arme ?

 

CENTAURE LIEGE Belgique : marque de l’arme.(voir le site)

 

GG & Alain

 

Votre fusil est donc une arme moderne, fabriqué dans les années '70 par la société "Fabrique d'armes unies de Liège".

Voir : http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20h/a%20hanquet%20famille%20fr.htm

Et

http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20e%20f/a%20fab%20armes%20unies%20de%20liege%20fr.htm

 

Identification 2971

 

It is about a revolver with (seems-it to me?) annular percussion. The loading is practiced by the right back door with cartridges with annular percussion and carrying the mark B (?).

The weapon carries an engraving representing of the foliage and the birds. The grips of wood (?) are carved of foliage and finish by a ring and without screw-pivot. The trigger is curved in an oval trigger guard. The rod under the barrel is maintained by a small metal tube into which it is slipped and fixed by a small screw. The barrel (gauges?) is round and is surmounted by a rectangular band with front sight and bead.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

R crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

This part also carries the following marks:

 

232: classification of the weapon.

 

LF: ignored significance? Marks of a manufacturer? Marks of an owner?

GG

 

There is one (very) weak possibility that this mark belongs LEFAUCHEUX, the immense arms manufacturer known in the whole world.

One is occupied checking and that take time, one will keep you informed.

 

Identification 2972

 

It is about a rifle pinfire of draft of Liège. The barrel is with 8 sides. The stick (wood?) English is with cheek. The opening is practiced using a side key. The hammer is posed on the right side. The trigger guard is with volutes.

The weapon carries two punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

EL in English letters: provisional test of 1852 to our days.

The weapon also carries a trademark or the initial ones of the owner, is GL (read so well?) in a vertical oval. Couldn't this mark be identified??

GG

Perhaps George Laloux but NOTHING makes it possible to certify it!!

Alain

 

Identification 2974

 

Rifle or rifle (rifled bore?) of manufacturing of Liège of before 1877!

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

V crowned: countermark of the controller of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

L J crowned: marks of manufacturer (of Liège) unknown???

 

L.L. : mark of subcontractor unknown of Liège (LECLERCQ Leon??)

 

R in a circle: could be a mark (armed Belgian?) of a company of bomb disposal experts???

 

J L crowned in a circle: unknown significance.

 

INVENTION P.L. N° 82 GEVELOT: Jules-Felix GEVELOT was a French industrialist (1826/1904) owner of a factory of cartridges with Isy Moulinaux!

 

BELLOW BUTTSTOCK? : Translation please?

GG

This weapon is a rifle of which the patent of improvement at summer deposited in Belgium under number 20241 by My sieurs Lagrèze & Pidault on February 27th, 1867, patent which makes following several patents deposited both in France and in Belgium.

Max

Invention P.L. N° 82 Gevelot means that the invention is of P(idault) L(agréze) and that the manufacturer is Gévelot.

Pidault Martial

Arquebusier in Paris 1842-1870.

Patents in France on June 13th, 1842 for the invention of a cylinder head turning on an axis (This rifle was manufactured by Gevelot), on June 16th, 1842 for a rifle with loading by the cylinder head and on July 12th, 1848 for simplification of the turntable.

He is also holder of the patent of the revolver Pidault é& Tevis deposited on May 16th, 1856, for the revolver Pidault & Cordier péposé on May 28th, 1860 (known under the name “Raphaël Revolver”), and finally for a rifle with loading by the cylinder head Lagrèze & Pidault on February 25th, 1867.

This last patent is that of your rifle!

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2975

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à percussion centrale et carcasse fermée. Le canon est à 8 pans avec guidon en demi-lune. Le barillet alvéolé est à 6 coups. La baguette est articulée. La détente est courbe dans un pontet ovale. La crosse est constituée de deux plaquettes en bois (noyer ??) quadrillées. Elles sont maintenues par une vis centrale, les rosettes de laiton sont rondes. Le chargement/déchargement se pratique par la portière latérale droite s’abaissant grâce à l’action d’un ressort interne.

L’arme porte des poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

W* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage du 30 janvier 1894 au 26 février 1968.

Le poinçon ELG* dans un ovale couronné (peu visible) indique l’acceptation de la visite au banc d’épreuves du 11 juillet 1893 au 26 février 1968.

14 : vraisemblablement un numéro de série.

AM sur le talon de crosse : inconnue, vraisemblablement un sous-traitant.

La marque sur la portière de barillet est illisible !

Bref, une production liégeoise anonyme.

GG

 

Identification 2976

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion. The cylinder is smooth and seems to be with 6 blows (non visible on photographs). The loading is practiced via the door of loading placed on the right side of the weapon. The rifled bore is with 8 sides with bodies of aiming. A rod sliding in two eyelets is fixed on the right side under the gun. The stick consists of two plates out of wooden smooth (Walnut ?) and fixed by a central screw at ears. It ends in a metal ring and its screw-pivot.

 

The weapon is marked lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

M crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

The weapon also carries the mark of the manufacturer, namely:

 

"MEYERS PATENTS" is “probably” the gunmaker of Cheratte (Liege) MEYERS Guillaume, Joseph, author of 6 Belgian patents deposited of 1866 to 1879. The absence of first name on the mark complicates the identification considering other manufacturers of the area of CHERATTE carried the same patronymic?! (See the site).

 

GG

 

Identification 2977

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion and box frame. This weapon is “drop system” i.e. the barrel perhaps rocked towards the line using the lever placed under the barrel!

The grooved cylinder is with 6 rooms.

The barrel is round and striped with a front sight in half-moon.

Remainders of engravings in rollers are still partially visible on the carcass.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of Liege, namely:

ELG on star in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

X spangled: countermark of the controller post 1877.

If I am not mistaken, this weapon corresponds to the patent n° 062109 of 19 July 1883 deposited by the arms manufacturer Jean WARNANT of Hoignée-Cheratte.

Appendix: drawing of this patent.

GG

See mine :

http://www.littlegun.be/ma_collection/belgique/be%20pqrstuvwxyz/a%20be%20warnant%20j%20drop%20system%20fr.htm

Alain Daubresse (Owner of the website)

 

Identification 2978

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion of type “BULLDOG” of origin of Liège. The smooth cylinder is with 6 blows. The loading/unloading of the cartridges is practiced by a door on the right side of the weapon. The trigger is curved under oval trigger guard. The probably striped barrel is short and round with a frnt sight in half-moon. The squared grips are kind “ebony or false ebony”. They are fixed by a central screw and two brass rivet washers.

 

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

P*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks on an amount of stick:

 

S.A. : subcontractor not identified.

 

B & F: manufacturer or subcontractor not identified.

 

FF: subcontractor not identified.

 

At the time, the weapon passed in the hands of various corporations of arms manufacture and the least important left a mark often not identified on the weapon.

 

GG

 

Identification 2979

 

It is about a revolver with 10 shots says “mitrailleuse” (machine-gun). The cylinder is with 10 blows with pin in only one line of rooms on the cylinder. Gauges it is not indicated, 7 or 9 mm?? Already Lefaucheux had manufactured revolvers with 12 blows, CHAINEUX of Liege followed with product many revolvers of this type.

 

The weapon carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in an oval vertical: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

U and V crowned: countermarks of the controllers, 1853 to 1877.

 

The weapon also carries the initial P.J which remain not identified. Is it' a manufacturer, a subcontractor or simply the first purchaser? I am unaware of it, sorry!

 

GG

 

Identification 2981

 

Shotgun to central percussion and locks of “hammerless” type. The opening is practiced using a key known as “Top Lever”. The unrifled bores of gauge 16 are juxtaposed. Locks ahead are engraved “with bouquets”. A safety with slide of the Galand type is placed behind the key Top lever. The stick in walnut of worked "with English".

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

AI*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Step: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

16-65 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

1Kg358: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Letter “i” into tiny: yearly letter of 1930.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Choke 16.9: chokes barrels: gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use of June 30th, 1924 at February 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

15755: number of the weapon.

 

32: classification of workshop.

 

Bow with arrows in a circle: mark of the Liège manufacturer CAP & GILLES Réunis S.A. manufacturers of barresl of rifles, street Chéri, 40 in Liege around 1924.

 

GG

 

Identification 2982

 

Cette arme est un "Pistolet de cycliste", également appelé "pistolet à moineaux" ou même "VeloDog", ou encore "pistolet de facteur", calibre 6mm bosquette, canon lisse, fabriqué à des milliers d'exemplaires en Belgique ou en France vers 1895-1905 et exportés dans toute l'Europe. A l’achat de …., vous receviez un petit pistolet cycliste en prime !!

Il en existe de toutes les tailles et modèles, certains ont un éjecteur et une culasse à guillotine. Ces éjecteurs et guillotines pouvant être munis de leviers de toutes tailles

Certains n’ont même pas cela, il faut enlever la cartouche tirée avec une tige par l’intérieur.

La plupart ont été fabriqués en France ou en Belgique, vendu "en blanc" en Allemagne, et éprouvé à Brême. Le U surmonté de deux couronnes est le poinçon officiel de Brême et signifie "untersucht" (éprouvé).

Finition peu soignée, mais folklore oblige. Ces machins se vendaient par paniers entiers sur les marchés et étaient offerts en prime à tout acheteur d'un vélo (ou d’autre chose).

Ces petits pistolets, dont certains ont un canon allant jusqu'à 20 cm et présentent parfois une finition acceptable sont amusants à collectionner, il y a des dizaines de variantes.

Alain

 

Identification 2983

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à double clés de type Lefaucheux. La percussion est centrale et les chiens sont extérieurs. Les canons lisses (calibre ?) sont juxtaposés. Les platines sont dites "en arrière".

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves liégeois, à savoir :

 

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation de 1846 à 1893.

 

H couronné : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1853 à 1877.

 

Perron : inspection, en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

 

LEPAGE et F. CHAUVOT Bté : il s’agit des inventeurs parisiens de cette arme qu’ils ont fait fabriquer à Liège la main d’œuvre y étant moins chère ! Le fabriquant liégeois quant’ à lui n’a laissé aucune marque permettant de l’identifier.

 

HL : inconnu. Il devrait s’agir d’une marque de sous-traitant liégeois.

4310 – 970 – 625 : vraisemblablement des marques de sous-traitants.

 

22172 : il devrait s’agir de la numérotation de l’arme.

 

GG

 

Identification 2985

 

Rifle with vertical percussion (with pin) of type LEFAUCHEUX made in Liege by an arms manufacturer remained unknown. That was often the case Mr. H.GRENU in NANTES was patentee (unknown?) which related to this weapon i.e. an unspecified improvement of Lefaucheux rifle. The weapon is with double key Lefaucheux. The trigger guard is with volutes. The stick in walnut is worked "with English". Engraving is "with bouquets". Locks are of type “behind” and the hammers of the dolphins type.

 

The weapon carries the punches indicating its origin i.e. the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1853 to 1893.

 

step: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

N crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

17.0: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 (?) at our days.

 

The manufacturer of Liège unfortunately did not leave any mark or indication allowing to identify it !

 

GG

 

Identification 2986

 

Shotgun to central percussion. The two barrels are juxtaposed (in table). Locks are of type “hammerless” with key of opening “top lever”. The stick in walnut is worked "with English".

The weapon carries various punches of tests which I tried to decide between as follows:

Proofhouse of Liege

 

Choke 18.3: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use in Liege of June 30th, 1924 before February 26th, 1968.

 

12 in a rhombus: gauge, of use from October 04th, 1898 to June 30th, 1924.

 

Proofhouse of London

 

Crowned CP: on the mechanism, ordinary test with the smoke-free powder.

 

NP surmounted of an armed wing of a saber: Ordinary test with the smoke-free powder on the barrel (London)

 

The weapon carries the following marks:

 

Etablissements Britte Liège Belgique (Establishments Britte Liege Belgium): it is the manufacturer of the weapon installed with LIEGE-VIVEGNIS, 252 street of Cheratte by 1924. (See the site)

 

Médaille d’or au grand prix de l’exposition universelle Bruxelles (Gold medal with the Grand Prix of the World Fair Brussels): without comment. Probably the exhibition of 1935.

 

Head of eagle: it would be about a mark of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles CAP Henri street Jonruelle, 62 in Liege.

 

870: probably the classification of the weapon.

 

Other marks like: 3 ¼ TONS - 2 ¾ - U - E arrow is unknown for me.

 

GG

 

The Britte firm still exists but does not manufacture any more weapons.

Here is its Website: http://www.britte.be/

And here is the link on Littlegun: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20b/a%20britte%20gb.htm

 

Alain (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2989

 

Obviously is it about a copy (Cap & Ball) of the revolver COLT 1853 manufactured by the firm of Liège “Cléments Arms C°”.

The plates of grips don't seem to me origin? The cylinder with 6 blows is smooth and with central percussion.

The punches are difficult to decipher. I think without certainty of having located the letters AH crowned which would belong to the controller of the proofhouse valid of Liège of 1877 to 1968? (It is your odd mark!!)

The weapon thus carries a marking far from readable (Clément Armes C°), which would belong to the manufacturer well-known inhabitant of Liège at the time is Charles Clement street Chéri, 37 in Liege. It was active of 1883 to 1912 (year of its death) It was the author of 35 patents and 14 trademarks.

The weapon also carries the marks:

A crowned: ignored significance?

3707: classification of the weapon.

GG

 

Identification 2990

 

It is about a shotgun to juxtaposed barrels. Those are different gauges is 9mm and of the 22. The system is of type WARNANT. Is it difficult for me on photographs to determine if it is about a system with central or perhaps annular percussion? The stick in walnut is of “cheek”. The trigger guard protecting two triggers is with volutes.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Perron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

AH*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

FL 9m.L: gauge 9mm of one of the barrels.

 

FL 22C: gauge second gun, 22 C (short?)

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of the 30.01. 1894 to the 26.02.1968.

This weapon is system WARNANT but any mark of any manufacturer does not seem to carry.

 

GG

 

Identification 2992

 

It is about a shotgun of the type LEFAUCHEUX conceived to draw cartridges with pin. The juxtaposed unrifled bores seem to be of gauge 15 (17.6 mm). The trigger guard with volutes recovers two curved triggers. The two hammers are with head punt. The buttplate "on return" is engraved as most other metal parts.

 

The weapon presents the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Step: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

17.6: gauge in mm, could correspond to gauge 15!

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

AL BERNARD BREVETE (PATENTS): only one Bernard Al of Liege appearing in documentation appoints the agent of a Belgian patent in 1855 for a new Damas applicable to the barrels of weapons of luxury and Damas known as lengthened. Would it be thus here the manufacturer of barrels of rifles and not the manufacturer of the weapon which remains anonymous?

 

AB crowned in a vertical oval: trademark of BERNARD AL

 

75992: classification of the weapon.

 

LT: ignored significance. Marks of a subcontractor??

 

GG

 

The Bernard and their works are in my first book : HERE

Alain Daubresse (Webmaster)

 

Identification 2995

 

It is about a rifle WARNANT to annular percussion. The rifled bore is with eight sides with front sight (tenon-mortise) and bead out of V. The extractor is with ear. The trigger is curved and is protected by a trigger guard with volutes. The metal buttplate is "on return". The stick "with English" seems to be in walnut.

This weapon does not carry any punch of the proofhouse of Liege although this weapon is originating in this city.

The weapon carries the following marks:

WARNANT PATENTS: mark of the inventive of Liège. The Warnant family was well represented in the circle of the arms manufacturers of Liège. Most important was Jean Warnant at the beginning of the 20th century (see the site). The absence of first name makes the identification difficult, 15 arms manufacturers bearing this name!!!

1305: it is most probably the classification of the weapon.

L crowned: ignored significance

MLI (read so well?) in an oval lying: it is probably the manufacturer of Liège of the weapon or possibly a subcontractor.

37 and letter R: marks of workshop?

 

GG

 

Identification 3000

 

It is about a copy of Liège of rifle with English percussion 1878 TOWER with one shot also carrying the English royal crown.

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, attesting of its Belgian origin.

 

These punches are identified as follows:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: it is the mark of final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

D*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Does the weapon also carry a mysterious mark N 3 13?? Couldn't I identify it?

 

GG

 

Identification 3001

 

It is about a revolver called “to rocker” or “top break” of type S&W. The lock is with simple and double action. The cylinder is smooth and comprises 6 rooms (gauges not communicated?). The opening starts by a button placed on the console right side behind the barrel. The rifled bore is with 8 sides with front sight in half-moon.  The grips consists of two plates in walnut (?) squared connected by a transverse screw and two rivet washers. It ends in a ring and a screw-pivot. The curved trigger is protected by an oval trigger guard.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of LIEGE, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

S spangled: countermark of the controller, post 1877.

 

Lastly, the weapon also carries the following marks:

 

P. behind the cylinder: I am unaware of the significance of it, perhaps acts it of a mark of subcontractor.

RDA: this mark can-being incomplete and thus difficult to identify. Idem for the resembling drawing perhaps representing a fish?

 

The weapon is of “type "Jean WARNANT" of HOGNEE-CHERATTE (Province of Liège) which carried out many models of revolvers top break. Its mark does not appear however on the present weapon. Perhaps' it is about a very frequent copy at the time and not signed of course!!

 

GG

 

Identification 3002

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil à percussion mono-coup à brisure. Le canon, vraisemblablement lisse, est à 8 pans et est fixé par deux "brassadelles". Il porte les organes de visée habituels comme le guidon inséré par tenon-mortaise et le cran de mire à plusieurs positions. Le canon est fixé dans la batterie par une seule vis et un crochet. Le chien est placé sur le flanc arrière droit. Ce qui me semble être une sûreté est placée à côté du chien, elle pénètre par glissement dans le corps de la platine pour venir bloquer l’ouverture (brisure) du canon ? La détente sous pontet ovale est courbe. La crosse en noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise. Le tenon fixe à l’extrémité du canon devrait servir à la fixation d’une baïonnette ?

 

Cette arme présente divers poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, ce qui nous indique son origine liégeoise. Soit les poinçons suivants :

 

N couronné : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à 1893.

 

MB – J.D – GD : il s’agit vraisemblablement de marques de sous-traitants non identifiés ayant participé à la fabrication de l’arme.

 

L’arme porte également les marques :

 

1241 : numérotation de l’arme.

 

CM dans un ovale couché : il s’agit très vraisemblablement du marquage du fabricant. Il s’agit peut-être d’une marque appartenant à Charles Masquelier, fabricant d’armes à Liège rue de la Cathédrale, 94 (1911/1925) bien que je pense, au vu des poinçons, que ces dates sont trop tardives.

 

Lettre Q (P inversé) : origine ignorée.

 

GG

 

Identification 3006

 

It is about a revolver of the type R.I.C. (Royal Irish Constabulary) Bulldog or Puppy following its size (nonvisible on the photographs). The cylinder is with ellipses. The trigger is folding under the frame (without trigger guard!) the rod with head of nipple is articulated. The barrel is with 8 sides with semicircular front sight. The plates of grips are invisible.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

AL*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

The weapon carries also various marks is:

 

C crowned: it acts with my opinion of marking of the manufacturer of cylinder of Herstal.

 

320A: gauge.

 

O - P - WB - 78: markings of workshops or subcontractors.

 

5394: number of the weapon.

 

F.F. in an oval lying: I think that it is the mark of the manufacturer but this one is not indexed in my documentation.

Several names could correspond of which the most probable can-being. (?)

FASTRE-FRAIKIN, Francois, gunmaker with Housse (Province of Liège) author of 4 patents of 1889 to 1902.

 

GG

 

Identification 3010

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion, the hammers are external and the key of opening “Top Lever”. Locks are of type “behind”. The triggers double are protected by an oval trigger guard. The steel barrels are juxtaposed with decorated central band. The weapon is equipped with a forearm not very visible on the photograph?

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1873 to 1968.

 

E12-65 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

 

U and Q*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

18.0: gauge in mm. In use from 1889 at our days.

 

Letter "f" into tiny: yearly letter of 1927. Date of manufacture of your weapon.

 

1Kg 636: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

 

Perron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

ABV in triangle: who could be the unknown mark of a manufacturer of barrels of rifles of the valley of Vesdre (between Liege and Verviers).

 

9290 and 37: classifications of the weapon.

 

D crowned: mark of DELCOUR-DUPONT Jean, manufacturer of barrels of rifles with FRAIPONT-NESSONVAUX (Province of Liège).

 

The weapon does not carry the mark of the “manufacturer” itself. That was a relatively current practice at the time.

 

GG

 

Identification 3018

 

Although the photographs are catastrophic here our conclusions:

It is thus about a shotgun to central percussion, with external hammers and unrifled bores "in table". The opening is practiced using a key known as “Top Lever” placed on the top of locks, those are of type “ahead”. The weapon comprises a double trigger under oval trigger guard. The stick is said “to English” out of wood of walnut!

With regard to the punches, they are of origin of Liège, i.e. the profhouse of this city:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

T*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

28-60 (read so well) in an omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use of June 30th, 1924 at our days.

 

Choke 14.0: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use from June 30th, 1924 to February 26th, 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

TROXADO DAMASCO: twisted Damas, although that is not visible on the photographs (wear?).

 

LC (read so well?) on the barrels: marks of the manufacturer of barrels??

 

5314: number of the weapon.

 

The weapon most probably intended for export does not carry any mark of manufacturer as that was often the case to avoid customs taxations.

 

GG

 

One cannot give exact date but the punches of the proofhouse gives a fork of 1924 to 1968.

 

Identification 3020

FLACHAT (mais lequel) et Merley Delmont sont les fabricants de votre fusil. L'un a vraisemblablement fabriqué les canons, et l'autre l'arme entière.

Voici ce que dit le DER NEUE STÖCKEL de ces artisans.

 

 

 

Ce qui suit est l'ensemble des réponses que j'ai reçus, certaines sont en "Vieux François", ce ne sont pas des fautes, c'est normal. Ils se sont amusés !!

Alain Daubresse

 

Bonsoir Alain

Il FRAPPE AVANT QUE LA FLAMME NE BRILLE, suivant le collier de la Toison d'or le symbole est un "fusil" c'est-à-dire en vieux français un briquet, une pièce de fer qui, battue contre un silex permettait de créer le feu. Naturellement le mot fusil s'est ensuite adapté pour devenir une arme. Il est naturel qu'un armurier sans doute féru d'histoire s'empare de ce symbole.

Au sens étymologique cela veut dire que le chevalier ne frappe que si on le provoque. Il portera le coup dès la moindre provocation avant qu'elle devienne brillante. Cela s'applique à tout blasphème ou contre l'honneur chevaleresque.

Pour une arme à feu cela se traduit par un coup instantané...

Amitiés

Daniel

 

 

......Pour l'aspect historique de la devise de la toison d'or

 

Elle-même se compose d'une belle toison dorée, que l'on retrouve aux cous du Bon et du Téméraire sur tous leurs portraits, mais aussi de briquets et de pierres illustrant la devise de l'ordre : Ante Ferit Quam Flamma Micet (Il frappe avant que la flamme ne brille), et dans lesquels on trouve deux B entrecroisés, montrant la souveraineté du duc sur les deux Bourgogne (le duché et le comté, aujourd'hui Franche-Comté, voilà qui devrait achever de convaincre nos camarades franc-comtois de rejoindre nos rangs).

Hormis le latin il faut comprendre l'italien ancien -

je précise "fugile soit silex" d’où le nom du "Fusil" actuellement

on parle de Briquet à pierre ( silex ) il frappe avant que jaillisse la flamme ou la lumière

Comme dirait un Bourguignons Téméraire ....

(Les Françoys n'ont guère le sang froy").

ci dessous des briquets anciens

Briquet à battre le silex ou "Fusil"

 Photos 3 et 4 des illustrations de "Briquet" retrouvés par fouille.

 

 

Photo 8 : (En vieux français)

L'ont vois superbement bien les "Briquets Bourguignon" entrelacés

avec les flammes du choc du Silex (Fusil)

 

Identification 3023

 

They are a pair of pistols known as “Scottish” with percussion. The system with box is equipped with a central hammer with percussion. The grips is in walnut of good quality, it ends in a metal cap equipped with a starter receptacle with lid in the shape of shell St Jacques. A fine floral engraving decorates the box.

 

The weapon carries only one punch of the bench of tests of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

The weapon also carries a mark (of the manufacturer?) GM not identified as such but which could perhaps correspond to the one of the arms manufacturers following inhabitants of Liège:

 

MARIETTE Guillaume (1840/1875) author of 22 Belgian patents.

MERCENIER G. Blegny, author of 2 patents of 1862 to 1864.

MORDANT G. of Liege (1850/1876) author of 3 patents.

 

GG

 

Note webmaster:

It is indeed very rare that a weapon of this kind has a system of aiming.

In theory this kind of weapon is rather made to draw at very short distance, almost with the contact!!

 

Identification 3027

 

It is about a small revolver with annular percussion said “Vélo-dog”. The calibre is of 6 mm. The short barrel is with 8 sides with front sight in half-moon. I am unaware of if it is striped because not announced! The hammer is with ball. The cylinder with 5 blows is long to accept the long cartouche vélo-dog. The rod is articulated. The trigger swell without trigger guard is folded up in the carcass. Both grips are out of black wood (ebony or false ebony?) and are fixed using a central screw.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in an oval crowned: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

AH*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

L crowned: could it belong to a manufacturer of barrels (Herstal) not identified?

 

6 or 9 following the position of the barrel: number of the weapon.

 

The amount of stick carries several marks of which some are illegible, that is to say:

 

16: classification of unknown origin (workshop?)

 

MR.: marks of an unknown subcontractor?

 

GG

 

Identification 3031

 

Il s’agit d’une carabine à un coup de type WARNANT de calibre 9 mm. Le canon est à 8 pans et le pontet à volutes. Le système de percussion est de type WARNANT bien connu. La crosse à l’anglaise semble être en bois de fruitier.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

BB* : contremarque de l’inspection post 1877.

Perron : inspection post 1853.

FL 9mC : calibre annoncé.

8,4 : calibre réel ?

1913 : année de fabrication.

L’arme porte également les marques suivantes :

RW : marque du fabricant liégeois WARNANT René, inscrit au banc d’épreuves liégeois de 1912 à 1956. Il est l’auteur de 4 brevets d’invention. En 1934, il reprend l’activité de WARNANT Emile.

AD JANSEN ARMURIER BRUXELLES (gravé sur la crosse) : il s’agit du revendeur bruxellois bien connu (voir le site).

GG

 

Identification 3032

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil à verrou à un coup et à percussion centrale. La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise. Le canon d’acier est rond. Cette arme de fabrication liégeoise n’est pas clairement identifiée. Elle porte néanmoins les poinçons du banc d’épreuves liégeois, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à 1968.

Perron : inspection post 1853.

AE* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968.

28C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de1898 à 1924.

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

13,8 : calibre

L’arme porte également divers marquages soit :

G13004 : numérotation sans correspondance connue.

T5355 – 50560 – 102 -  J 76 – D4 – BB : idem ci-dessus.

/ / / : Marques d’équipeurs.

Il ressemble étrangement au fusil "Gras" français, sauf le fait que le verrou est coudé mais peut-être ce modèle existe t'il dans les différentes fabrications du fusil Gras !?

GG

 

Identification 3033

 

It is about a shotgun to double juxtaposed barrels (gauges?). Locks are known as “behind”. The hammers are external. The key superior is known as “Top Lever”. The double trigger is under oval trigger guard. The forearm is not enough visible to determine its type. The stick in walnut is worked "with English".

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the profhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

S*: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

279: classification of the weapon?

 

6D: does workshop mark?

 

The weapon also carries the mark of the manufacturer, that is to say FAND HANQUET LIEGE, it acts of the arms manufacturer of Liège Ferdinand HANQUET registered with the profhouse of Liège of 1872 to 1920. The company will be taken again in 1920 by the Fabrique d’Armes Unies de Liège (F.A.U.L).

 

GG

 

Identification 3034

 

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type to central percussion. The weapon operates using the key superior “Top lever. The weapon is equipped with a safety of the type “Galand”. The stick in walnut is of standard “pistol”. The barrels of gauge 16 are juxtaposed. The double trigger is protected by an oval trigger guard. The forearm is of type “with pump”. It carries a rich animalist engraving gilded on arabesques.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance of 1893 to our days.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

X* and AV*: countermarks of the controllers, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Stylized lion surmounting letters PV: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

16C in a rhombus: gauge, of use from 10/4/1898 to 6/30/1924.

 

Choke 16.2/17.0 and 15.5/17.2: chokes barrels gauged in mm with 22cm of the breech and the mouth. Of use from 2/25/1910 to 6/30/1924.

 

P1Kg31,6 (read so well?): Weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons). In use from June 11th, 1892 to June 30th, 1924.

 

D=65/19,0: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. In use from 6/6/1892 to 6/30/1924.

 

M.C.C.T in a circle: punch of manufacturer of barrels for firearms not identified?

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

78672: classification of the weapon.

 

7975: classification of the gun.

 

440: on forearm, classification of workshop?

 

J F and C * in a vertical oval: it is the mark of the manufacturer of Liège JANSEN Fils & Co, street Lambert the stammerer, n° 4. This firm was registered with the ^proofhouse of Liège of 1895 with 1937. It deposited 2 patents for a rifle hammerless with central fire. The firm deposited 28 trademarks.

 

Mécanisme par la fabrique d’armes de guerre de Herstal: mechanism manufactures by the F.N. HERSTAL!!

 

GG

 

Identification 3035

 

It is about a revolver top break of the type S&W to central percussion. The opening is practiced while drawing on the higher pedal in front of the hammer. The cylinder with six shots (gauges 38?) comprises a star extractor. The long barrel is round with a hollow band superior. The grips are out of wood (walnut?) smooth and are maintained by a cross screw.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

C*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

L crowned: would it be about a manufacturer of barrels?

 

The weapon also carries some marks is:

 

FDC 440: it is the mark of the manufacturer François DUMOULIN in LIEGE (Proofhouse 1894/1968) (more complete answer on our site).

 

F with three branches: probably a mark of the manufacturer?

 

BELGIUM: without comment.

 

LI? (not very readable): marks of subcontractor?

 

GG

 

Identification 3037

 

Il s’agit d’un revolver à percussion centrale, barillet à 6 à coups, canon mi rond et mi hexagonal avec guidon en demi-lune. La détente est courbe avec pontet ovale à repose à doigt. Les crossettes sont en bois  quadrillé noir (noyer ??) avec vis centrale de maintien. La crosse se termine par un anneau et sa vis de calotte.

 

L’arme porte les poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

 

- ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, 1877/1893.

 

- H couronné : contremarque du contrôleur, 1853/1877.

 

Elle porte également les marques suivantes :

 

Modèle NS 1885 et NS : il s’agit des marques du fabricant ! Il pourrait s’air de :

 

- SIMON Noël, industriel, rue Fontaine, 260 à HERSTAL, auteur de 10 brevets de 1873 à 1892.

 

- SIMONIS, Nicolas, Blegny-Trembleur, auteur de 3 brevets de 1877 à 1907. 

 

8 : il s’agirait à mon sens du numéro de l’arme ?

 

MB : vraisemblablement la marque d’un sous-traitant non identifié.

 

GG

 

Identification 3039

 

In spite of the little of images, what I then to withdraw some here:

- It is about part of shotgun to central percussion of type “hammerless”. The two juxtaposed barrels, of gauge 20, are smooth. The double trigger is under trigger guard.

 

- The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

 ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, 1893/1968.

 

20 C in a rhombus: gauge, 1898/1924.

 

Peron: inspection, 1853/à our days.

 

M* and X*: countermarks from the controllers, 1877/1968.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test to the smoke-free powder, 1898/1968.

 

P.1K114: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of June 30th, 1924 at our days.

 

D= 70/17.7: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. 1892/June 30th, 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, 1852 at our days.

 

15.0 - 15.8: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. 1898/1910.

 

The weapon also following marks:

 

J.G on the barrel: probably a manufacturer of barrels of rifles which I could not identify.

 

MR engraved with the fine gold: probably the initial ones of the first owner.

 

A. GODEFROID J. LEJEUNE-FAUVE SUCCURSALLE LIEGE: In 1885, Godefroid A. shares its activity with Godefroid N. and its brother Godefroid Gustave. In 1913 the activity is taken over by Lejeune Fauvé.

 

GG

 

Identification 3043

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion and external hammers. The key of crack is of standard “Top lever”.

Locks are known as “behind”. The double trigger is under oval trigger guard. The forearm carries a kind of opening which is unknown for me. The stick in walnut is of standard “pistol - to cheek”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of tests of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

H*: countermark from the controller, 1877/1968.

 

16 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

CHOKE 16.7/16.9: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of the 25.02.1910 to the 30.06.1924.

 

The manufacturer of Liège did not leave any visible mark, it will thus remain unknown.

 

GG

 

Identification 3046

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion, hammers external and key of opening “top lever”. The barrels in fine Damas Boston are smooth and of gauge 16. The metal butt plate is with reasons in particular an eagle with the spread wings. The lock called “ahead” are engraved arabesques. The double trigger curved is under an oval trigger guard. The stick of form “pistol” is out of wood of walnut.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, of use of 1893 to 1968.

 

16 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

M*: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

16,4/17,0: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

Not for ball: chokes unrifled bores. In use of 1878 to 1897. These dates are not compatible with others, I am unaware of the cause of it.

 

The weapon also carries the following marks:

 

J-B Rongé Son in Liège: manufacturer well-known inhabitant of Liège. See the site.

 

23995 and 23018: marks of manufacturing struck the weapon (guns and battery).

 

H.W: mark of manufacturer of barrels of rifles of Vesdre (Liege) not indexed.

 

GG

I you like nice belgians weapon, SEE HERE

 

Identification 3047

C'est un Darne R15 (5 symboles Darne ressemblant à un panneau de sens interdit), donc le plus luxueux de la gamme des R qui vont du R10 au R 15 ensuite on monte en gamme et on passe à la gamme "P" (P16, P17, P18) puis à la gamme "V" du 19 au 23 Hors série!

Le fusil présenté est un modèle à petite clef.(R)

Les modèles à grande clef sont des P ou V.

Pour avoir le modèle, il suffit de compter le nombre de poinçons ronds sous la frette et ajouter 10.

Le R10 est marqué type 10.Puis les autres qui n'ont que des poinçons ronds sont:

R11,R12,R13,R14,R15

P17,P18

V19,V20,V21,V22, VHS

Les R ont des obturateurs convergents à partir du R13;comme les P et V.( sauf les premières années vers 1900)

Les R s'arment en ouvrant la culasse, et les P et V en la fermant.

Le démontage des canons des R s'opère en basculant un verrou dans la table, alors que les P et V ont un poussoir devant le pontet.

 

Ce fusil est chambré en 12-65; a subi la triple épreuve à la poudre T à l'état de livraison (foudres)

L'âme du canon est au diamètre 18,2 (fusil ancien).Les canons sont frettés.

Le canon gauche choké full n'est pas recommandé pour la balle.

Les Darne d'avant 1910 n'avaient pas de canons frettés (comme les Halifax)

3C63 est le matricule de l'arme.

Les ets Bruchet-Darne à Saint-Etienne peuvent quelque fois donner l'année de sortie avec le N°.

 

Identification 3052

 

Single-barrelled gun of gauge 12

Key closing under the standard gun Lefaucheux, gun undoubtedly false Damas

Punches:

 

Peron: inspection since 1853 until our days.

 

ELG on asterisk in oval: acceptance between 1846 and 1893

 

Letters EL : provisional test since 1852

 

R spangled: countermark of the controller between 1877 and 1968

 

18.2: gauge 12

 

With the risk to strongly disappoint the owner of the weapon, it cannot in no case to be a question of a production of Lebeau-Courally because the weapon is not signed and especially its type and the quality (?) of completion does not correspond to the standards of Lebeau-Courally.

GP

Moreover the punches indicate a manufacturing between 1877 and 1893, but Lebeau-Courally exists only since 1920!!

Alain

 

Identification 3058

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion. The unrifled bores of gauge 12 are smooth and juxtaposed. Double closing with bolt is actuated by the lever between the hammers. Locks are known as “ahead”. They are decorated with animalist reasons and arabesques. The double trigger is protected by an oval trigger guard. The wood front is of type “with pump”. The stick of walnut (French?) is of standard “pistol”.

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, 1893/1968.

 

AB* - S* - double P reversed: countermarks from the controllers, 1877/1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12C in a vertical rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

 

D= 70%/20.7: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1892 to 1924.

 

Choke 17.6/18.3: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

P1K562, 1: weight of the barrrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) Of use of 1892 to 1924.

 

The other marks mean:

 

ACN in a circle: mark of the manufacturer of guns of rifles NEUPREZ in Liege.

 

Figures 2642 - 1679 - 52: classification of the weapon.

 

PIRLOT & FRESARD LIEGE: mark of the manufacturer of Liège of the weapon which was installed in Liege, street Saint Gilles, 95 (see our site).

GG.

 

Identification 3059

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion. The double-juxtaposed barrels are smooth and of gauge 16. The forearm is with push rod. The engraving of locks of the hammerless type is of type “melts hollow” it represents a dragon surrounded by foliage.

 

The punches, of which some are not very readable, emanate from the proofhouse of Liège, namely:

 

ELG* in a crowned oval: final acceptance, 1893/1968.

 

B* and J*: countermarks from the controllers, 1877/1968.

 

Peron: inspection, of use of 1853 to our days.

 

16C in a rhombus: gauge, 1898/1924.

 

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder. 1898/1968.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

POK997, 8: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons).

 

D = illegible: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. 1892/1924.

 

???/17.0 (Illegible): chokes barrels, gauged in mm with 22cm of the breech and the mouth. 1910/1924.

 

The weapon also carries engraved to the fine gold, marking EPREUVE A LA POUDRE PYROXILEE (Tested with powder pyroxillee), this kind of powder is a modern powder by comparison of "Black Powder".

 

The weapon does not seem to carry any marking of manufacturer,

 

GG

 

Identification 3061

 

It is about a banal pocket revolver of pin of the Lefaucheux type made in Liege in thousands of specimens. The nonalveolate cylinder with six blows is notched for the cartridges with pin. This one is accessible for the loading by the right back door. It carries an engraving of vineleaves. The barrel is round and probably striped with a front sight rectangular. The hammer is with head punt to strike the pins. The metal rod is of standard “nail”. The trigger is folding without trigger guard. The two plates seem to be out of ebony (or false-ebony) and are connected by a central screw to ears.

 

This part carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

 

ELG* in a vertical oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1993.

 

Z crowned: countermark of the controller, of use of 1853 to 1877.

 

It also carries a horizontal oval mark with not very readable letters

(P.D - Data base - etc??) We could not identify this manufacturer.

 

GG

 

Identification 3074

Percussion shooting carbine made by Augste Francotte in Liège, Belgium.

Proofmark of the Proofbank of Liège (ELG in oval) and AF from Francotte.

The calibre is unknown due through the lack of information from the owner.

We use the name “shooting carbine” because of the sighting, a little more elaborate than the classic back-sight, although it is quite crude (in our XXIst century eyes anyway).

This carbine should have been made between the years 1820/1830 and 1860/1870.

There is quite an anachronism between this period of fabrication, and the prize small plates screwed on the butt. The plates, in Danish, come from a first prize given by the Home Ministry in 1871 and from a prize given by the city of Fredericia (Jutland) in 1876. But we have to realize that at this time, metallic cartridges were already used.

First we thought that it was a prize carbine given by the Danish Home Ministry in 1871. But how can the plate form Fredericia in 1876 then  been explained? And this plate is followed by another one (also in 1876) with, maybe, the name of the shooter. We also noticed that the screws of the plates are different.

Everything considered, it could be a shooting carbine used – succesfully – up to 1876 by a shooter who got a prize from the Home Ministry in 1871 and another one from the city of Fredericia in 1876.

Anyway, it is a reality that Belgian arms were much used and appreciated far from Belgium.

We had contact with the (very interesting) museum of Arms of Copenhague but they could not help us. In the XIXth century, shooting was very popular, there were a lot of competitions because shooting was then seen as a “national” sport (also for the defence of the country, of course… times change…). And shooting prizes were very various!

Let us also remember that Auguste Francotte made revolvers fort the Danish Cavalry and Danish officers.

GP

 

Identification 3075

 

Un classique fusil de chasse juxtaposé hammerless à fermeture à clé « top lever ».

63975 est quasi certainement le n° de l’arme.

 

Les poinçons :

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire depuis 1852

 

Perron : poinçon d’inspection en vigueur depuis le 16 juin 1853 jusqu’à nos jours

 

PV  sous lion : épreuve à la poudre vive entre le 4 octobre 1898 et le 26 février 1968

 

12 C dans un losange : calibre 12 (en usage entre 1898 et 1924)

65 mm correspond à la longueur de la chambre et donc des munitions.

 

X étoilé et V étoilé : contremarques de contrôleurs en usage entre 1877 et 1968

 

Poinçon ELG dans un ovale sous couronne : acceptation définitive en usage du 11 juillet 1893 à 1968.

 

Acier Cockerill : le type d’acier utilisé pour les canons.

 

P 1 kg 288,3 : poids du canon, en vigueur depuis le 30 juin 1924

 

AF couronné : poinçon d’Auguste Francotte.

 

Il est signé « Auguste Francotte Breveté à Liège » sur le canon. Voir le site littlegun.be (armes belges, artisans identifiés) pour l’histoire de cette grande dynastie armurière liégeoise qui a produit tant des armes civiles que militaires pendant un peu moins de deux siècles.

 

GP

 

Le recoupement théorique des différentes dates donne une date de fabrication de 1924 mais sans garantie aucune. Aucune archive ne reprends les N° de série des armes de Francotte par date de fabrication !!

Alain Daubresse

 

Identification 3076

 

Rifle with two barrels, key top lever, with locks, in calibre 9,3 x 74R with stick in walnut shaped and forearm with psh button fabricated by the society Magilissen, successor to Antoine Defourny, engraved by F. DUPONT (signature under the key).

Bradawls:

Peron (steps): applied examination from 1853 to our days.

 

PV in oval crowned: punch of acceptance for the lively powder since February 26th, 1968.

 

2880 kg cm2: undoubtedly the pressure supported by cannons.

 

0004:  serial number of the weapon is more than probably.

 

He should normally have other marks again there on barrels, and also annual letter.

 

SL could be put in touch with Saroléa in Haccourt, but without guarantee.

 

Another arms with an identical signature of F. DUPONT is known to us: it is about a gun of Augustin Dardenne (see on the site littlegun. be). This gun is dated of 1959.

We do not have other information on Magilissen, except that a "garnisseur" of the same name existed in a not known period.

GP

 

Identification 3084

Hello Mr Bradstreet,

Here is the list of all patents of G. Zeller in Belgium as known for the moment.

The patents of G. Zeller still exist at the “Office de la Propriété intellectuelle” in Brussels ( http://www.1819.be/fr/organisations/office-belge-de-la-propriete-intellectuelle-opri ) and whether they can be consulted and copied.

GP & Max

I can ask all these patent to the "Office de la propriété Intellectuelle" but it is not free, it requires 3 euros per patent. (In high resolution)

Alain

1873

033269

1873/09/17

ZELLER G.

Rue de Launay, 2 MOLENBEEK ST-JEAN (B)

Perf

Système de fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)

1873

032054

1873/02/21

ZELLER G.

Rue de Launay, 2 MOLENBEEK ST-JEAN (B)

Perf

Modifications apportées au fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)

1871

029405

1871/09/28

ZELLER G.

Chaussée de Ninove, 21 BRUXELLES (B)

Perf

Fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)

1871

028795

1871/05/19

ZELLER G.

BRUXELLES (B)

Perf

Modifications apportées au fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)

1872

030334

1872/04/04

ZELLER G.

Rue de Launay, 2 MOLENBEEK ST-JEAN (B)

Perf

Fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)

1877

043476

1877/11/06

ZELLER G.

Fuabourg Vivegnis, 161 LIEGE (B)

Inv.

Fusil se chargeant par la culasse

1871

028941

1871/06/24

ZELLER G.

BRUXELLES (B)

Perf

Modifications apportées au fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)

1870

028220

1870/11/12

ZELLER G.

SAINT JOSSE-TEN-NOODE (B)

Inv.

Système de fusil se chargeant par la culasse

1873

033046

1873/08/05

ZELLER G.

Rue de Launay, 2 MOLENBEEK ST-JEAN (B)

Perf

Modifications apportées au fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)

1872

031136

1872/09/04

ZELLER G.

Rue de Launay, 2 MOLENBEEK ST-JEAN (B)

Perf

Modifications apportées au fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)

1870

028356

1870/12/31

ZELLER G.

Rue de la Senne, 75 BRUXELLES (B)

Inv.

Fusil se chargeant par la culasse

 

 

Identification 3085

 

Pistolet espagnol Imperial

Pistolet espagnol modèle « Imperial » en calibre 6,35 mm fabriqué pour ou par la société José Aldazabal d’Eibar, gravé or et plaquettes de nacre.

Aucune photo d’éventuels poinçons ni de marquage.

La région d’Eibar a inondé le marché de pistolets généralement bon marché et de qualité souvent décriée, surtout avant, pendant et après la 1GM. Près d’un million de pistolets type Ruby et de copies de revolvers (notamment Colt et S&W) en 8 mm ont ainsi été vendus à la France pendant la 1GM.

L’arme en question n’a évidemment pas de destination militaire puisqu’il s’agit d’un pistolet en calibre 6,35 mm souvent appelé « type Eibar » (une copie très simplifiée du Browning 1906 ?).

Selon Ian V. Hogg et John Weeks dans leur livre « Pistols of the World », il semble que les pistolets « Imperial » aient été fabriqués par Tomas de Urizar y Cia d’Eibar pour le compte de la société Hijos de José Aldazabal dont les initiales JA apparaissent sur les plaquettes.

Il y a une sûreté à l’arrière du bâti et un bouton de démontage juste au-dessus de la détente.

L’arme a été gravée or dans le style espagnol (Tolède) typique.

La société Urizar d’Eibar a été active entre 1900 et 1921. Le modèle Imperial daterait de 1914.

A noter que la marque « Imperial » a aussi été déposée par les firmes espagnoles suivantes :

Gregorio Bolumburu et Toribio Zulaica (dépôt officiel n° 20552)

En annexe des photos de pistolets Imperial 1910 et 1914 en version "populaire". Le modèle 1914 est en effet identique au modèle gravé (il est vrai sans l’inscription sur la culasse).

GP et MD

 

Identification 3087

 

Il s’agit d’une fabrication “récente” (= arme de traite ou en tout cas d’export ?) d’un fusil à deux coups à percussion, avec des canons en faux damas, une "décoration sommaire" (on n’ose pas dire une gravure) sur les platines arrière, une boîte à amorces dans la crosse. L’inscription (en espagnol ou portugais?) sur les canons n’est pas lisible.

Les poinçons.

L’origine liégeoise ne fait pas de doute.

Perron : 1853 à nos jours

V sous astérisque : contremarque de 1877 à 1968

G sous astérisque : contremarque de 1877 à 1968

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire de 1852 à nos jours

13.0 : calibre en mm

ELG dans un ovale : poinçon d'acceptation définitive entre 1846 et 1893

D sous couronne : contremarque d’un contrôleur ?

JD dans ovale : peut-être Jean Duchateau mais sans garantie aucune.

MD dans losange allongé : inconnu jusqu’à présent

 

Il s’agit d’une arme bon marché et de faible calibre, sans doute destinée à l’exportation, peut-être vers l’Amérique du Sud.

GP

 

Identification 3092

 

It is a completely collapsible rifle with English stick, with opening to side key of Leclercq type gauges 12 mm of manufacturing of Liège of them. “The” rifle of poacher by excellence.

The weapon seems in good state, having preserved a good part of its marbling and bronzing of its barrel, octagonal first, then round.

One manufactured thousands of specimens of this kind of weapon, with one or two barrels (generally juxtaposed), in a multiplicity of gauges, especially in .410 or 12 mm like this specimen.

She is signed MEIZER-DUQUENNE LIEGE on the barrel.

One finds the punches usual of the proofhouse of Liège:

The peron (step) : punch of inspection of 1853 to our days

PV under lion: punch of test to the sharp (black) powder, used between on October 4th, 1898 and before February 26th, 1968

G under star: countermark of the controller enters on January 27th, 1877 and before February 26th, 1968.

10.4 are the gauge in mm (what corresponds to the 12 mm or .410)

EL in english letters: provisional test, use since December 21st, 1852

0 kg610 is the weight of the barrel.

The Greek letter "Lambda" is the yearly letter of 1954. Year of manufacture of your weapon.

ELG in a crowned oval is the punch of acceptance since July 11th, 1893 until before February 26th, 1968.

410.65 in the Greek letter Omega gives the nominal gauge and the length of the room, of use since June 30th, 1924.

232 is undoubtedly the serial number of the weapon.

The house MEIZER-DUQUENNE is not taken again in “Who's who arms manufacturer of Liège”, nor in the works of our late friend Guy Gadisseur on publicity in arms manufacture of Liège. One finds via Internet some weapons of this house, of which a rifle of great hunting of the Mauser type on the site littlegun.be, and other rifles Leclercq type.

GP

 

Identification 3093

 

It is here about a revolver in 5 shots, not specified calibre, copies the model British Bull-Dog of Philip Webley & Son (see annexed document) by an unknown Belgian producer and with good reason:

 

On May 23rd, 1881, the firm P. Webley and Son of Birmingham (GB) had deposited in Belgium a trademark «THE BRITISH BULL DOG».

 

Anecdote: it would seem that the American President James A. Garfield (who will die from his wounds) is assassinated (7/2/1881) by one of these Belgian copies of British Bull-dog in .44.

 

His design was use as a basis in WEBLEY RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary).

 

He carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liège:

 

Spangled ELG in an oval: Applied Acceptance from 1846 till 1893.

 

R under star: pass of the inspector from 1877 till 1968.

 

Estimate of the date of manufacture, between 1877 and 1898.

 

The Belgian producer having left draws no, he will remain therefore anonymous!!

 

HPH

 

 

Identification 3094

 

Carabine de jardin de fabrication liégeoise, habituellement appelée Warnant, à culasse longue, canon octogonal et crosse à poignée pistolet en 9 mm Flobert. Arme très courante pendant la première moitié du XXe siècle, fabriquée dans plusieurs calibres, les plus courants étant le 6 et le 9 mm Flobert et le .410 (12 mm) à percussion centrale.

Les poinçons : FL 9 mm C sur le côté gauche du canon, indiquant le 9 mm Flobert (percussion annulaire, à balle ou plombs).

ELG dans ovale sous couronne : poinçon d’acceptation post 1893.

Perron : inspection en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

AL* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968

L'arme a donc été fabriquée entre 1893 et 1968

 

La marque AS couronnée pourrait donc appartenir à Simonis albert ou Spirlet Albert sans aucune certitude.

D'autant que la marque de Spirlet était souvent dans un losange !!

En ce qui concerne la marque JR, il existe bien un JR correspondant un J. Rosseel de Tilff mais comme il était actif vers 1948, cela nous semble peu vraisemblable (mais pas tout à fait exclu non plus).

8.4 est le diamètre du canon.

976 est sans doute le numéro de fabrication de cette arme qui a été produite à des milliers d’exemplaires par de nombreux fabricants.

Manque à gauche de la culasse le bouton permettant de l’ouvrir facilement.

 GP

 

Identification 3096

 

It is here about a revolver in 5 blows, calibre .450 (455), carrying the mark "American Settler" deposited by Lucien Clement on January 26th, 1899.

Lucien Clement, producer of weapon in Liege, street Maghin 60 then street Chéri 47 (the same addresses as Charles Clement).

I think that this weapon was rather intended for the market of the Africain colonies: Belgian Congo (American Settler = American colonist).

 

He carries the marks of the proofhouse of Liege or :

 

Spangled ELG in oval crowned: Applied Acceptance of from 1893.

 

B spangled: pass of the inspector from January 27th, 1877.

 

R (a little bigger than that of the inspector) crowned: mark of check on the rifled handguns from January 30th, 1894 till February 26th, 1968.

 

24: Number of the weapon, nevertheless it is rather about a number allowing to the filter to reconstruct the weapon.

 

Estimate of the date of manufacture, between 1899 and 1913 (the theoretical end of the black powder).

 

HPH

 

Identification 3097

 

It is here about a pocket revolver in 6 shots, calibre .320 (7,65 mm), of type Baby or Puppy.

In the absence of definite marking, it is impossible to identify the producer, this type of weapon was manufactured in several thousand copies by dozens producers.

 

Letters " EP « and " D " would be initials belonging to the producer (artisan or worker) having fabricated the parts where they appear.

 

He carries the mark of the proofhouse of Liege or :

 

Spangled ELG in oval crowned: Applied Acceptance of from 1893.

 

Spangled AT: pass of the inspector from January 27th, 1877.

 

R (a little bigger than that of the inspector) crowned: mark of check on the rifled handguns from January 30th, 1894 till February 26th, 1968.

 

37: Number of the weapon, nevertheless it is rather about a number allowing to the filter to reconstruct the weapon.

 

Estimate of the date of manufacture, between 1894 and 1913 (theoretical end of the black powder).

 

HPH

 

Identification 3098

 

Your revolver is a revolver of the Lefaucheux type says “open frame”, i.e. the top is not fixed at the part postpones weapon, only the low part of the carcass is maintained by a screw with the front part.

 

Owing to the fact that only a point of fixing maintained the barrel and its console with the remainder of the weapon, these small revolvers were rather fragile.

 

In the area of Liege hundreds of craftsmen manufactured these weapons per thousand for sale it in many countries.

 

Its ammunition is a cartridge “pinfire” which existed in gauge 5, 7, 9 and 12mm.

Until the invention of the cartridge with central percussion the ammunition with pin were extremely appreciated.

The calibre more the current is the 7mm, which is probably the case of yours.

 

This weapon carries only two punches of the proofhouse of Liege (Belgium) which one can define as follows:

 

Ø  Spangled ELG in an oval:       final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

 

Ø  Letter (unreadable) spangled: countermark of controller post 1877.

 

Therefore, period of manufacture between 1877 and 1893.

The letters "HH" "JM" and "IF" on the metal skeleton are marks of sub contractor.

The manufacturer will remain anonymous because no marking is visible, reassure you that however was often the case on these weapons of poor quality.

 

Alain

 

Identification 3099

 

It is a shotgun juxtaposed of type Anson and Deeley of gauge 16, with a pistol stick with cheek and a forearm with push rod, with key of opening top rising.

 

Markings

 

Cockerill steel: type of steel used to manufacture the guns.

 

16-65 in an omega: gauge 16 and length of the room 65 mm.

 

ELG on asterisk in a crowned oval: test enters on July 11th, 1893 and 1968

 

Peron (step): inspection since 1853.

 

EL in English letters : Provisional test since 1852.

 

Choke 16.4

 

Z under star: countermark of the controller of use of 1877 to 1968.

 

Greek letter delta (without warranty): yearly letter of 1958, which could thus be the year of the manufacturing of this rifle.

 

I or JC could be the brand of the manufacturer of barrels Joseph Cap.

 

JF: perhaps the initial ones of Janssen Frères or the Workshops J. Falla.

 

Lion on PV: test with the smoke-free powder enters on October 4th, 1898 and on February 26th, 1968.

 

1kg217 is the weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (since June 30th, 1924 until our days).

 

N in one ecu is the Czech punch for the individual test of the unrifled bore weapons charged by the breech with the smoke-free powder.

 

The presence of the Czech punch seems to be the proof that the weapon was represented with the test in this country.

 

GP

 

Identification 3100

 

Is it about a long rifle of gauge 10 (canardière?) juxtaposed with external hammers, stick half-pistol and single forearm, marked Imperial Belgium Damascus on the tape between the barrels and Janssen Arms C° on the lock.

 

Markings

 

EL in English letters: provisional test since 1852.

 

Peron: inspection since 1853.

 

V under star: countermark of the controller since 1877.

 

10 C in vertical rhombus: gauge weapon.

 

19.0: gauge in mm: it is a little strange insofar as a gauge 10 fact normally 19.7 mm; but as one can also read registration choke bored, this undoubtedly explains that.

 

ELG in oval under crown: acceptance between 1893 and 1968.

 

36976 undoubtedly the number of the weapon.

 

The weapon is obviously of quality poor and the barrels are certainly not in Damas, notwithstanding commercial registration on the tape. This commercial registration is allotted either to Henri Pieper (of which rifles were sold with this registration in the United States via T. Barker), or in Janssen Fils and C°, which is more probable in the case which occupies to us being given the presence of Janssen Arms C° on the turntable.

It is thus undoubtedly about one of these thousands - even hundreds of thousands - rifles of Liège of less quality exported towards the United States before the 1e World war, sold at the time between 10 and 20 dollars, while a rifle of quality was sold minimum 100 dollars.

 

GP

 

Identification 3101

 

It is about a single-barrelled gun of gauge 4 with central percussion, closing by key on the trigger guard and with external dog on a back turntable. The gun seems to be in Damas.

 

Markings

 

V under star: countermark of the controller since 1877.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test since 1952.

 

Peron (Little step): inspection since 1853.

 

ELG in oval under crown: acceptance between 1893 and 1968

 

4 C in a vertical rhombus: gauge weapon (either 26 mm).

 

AP under star: countermark of the controller since 1877.

 

JJ: not identified. Admittedly, the Jacquemart Workshops signed JJ, but their working life (end of the Forties) does not correspond in our opinion to that of the weapon.

 

GM (?) under crown: not identified.

 

Choke 216/232: choké barrel: cal in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use from February 1910 to June 1924.

The weapon was thus probably manufactured between 1910 and 1924. It was undoubtedly intended for hunting for waterfowl.

 

GP

 

Identification 3103

 

Pistolet de tir à un coup, canon basculant, fermeture Tranter, finition noire, crosse noyer quadrillée, bascule jaspée avec hausse et guidon suisses,  portant les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

ELG sur étoile dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

C étoilé : contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

Perron : poinçon de l’inspecteur du Banc d’Epreuves en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

L’arme porte également la marque .22L qui signifie qu’elle est de calibre 22 long (6 mm) annulaire.

RW : vraisemblablement les initiales de l’artisan/ouvrier ayant fabriqué la carcasse

Belgique : sans commentaire

Le fabricant : Meyers-Coune Henri, armurier à Cheratte, il dépose en 1913 deux brevets pour un système de pistolet par déflagration des gaz, combinant le recul en trois endroits et à mouvement de détente inverse ainsi qu’un nouveau dispositif applicable aux armes automatiques. En annexe extrait d’un catalogue de 1909 de la manufacture d’armes L. Ancion-Marx (LAM) ou la même arme figure sous la référence 23TH

HPH

 

Identification 3111

 

Skeletal Leclercq stick

It is about a collapsible rifle standard Leclercq with skeletal stick gauges .38 of them Remington of manufacturing inhabitant of Liège.

 

Markings

 

Perron (little step) : inspection since 1853

 

C under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

 

38 Remington: the ammunition used

 

326896 undoubtedly the number of manufacturing of the weapon.

 

There are certainly other punches under the barrel but they were not photographed. In theory, it is enough to push the button close to the screw to make fold the barrel completely (and to see the punches well).

This kind of Leclercq rifle was abundantly produced in Liege, in a large number of gauges. More rarely with such a skeletal stick. The polished and partially gilded completion is certainly not origin.

The .38 Remington (approximately 9.6 mm) with annular percussion is not current in Belgium; it was extremely widespread between 1870 and 1900 in the United States, so much for revolvers than of the rifles and the production ceased before 1940. The cartridge existed in version shorts, length, extra-long and with leads.

It would be necessary to measure the diameter of the barrel to the chamber because it seems higher to me than 9.6 mm, but it is perhaps only one impression

It is quasi certainly about a production for export towards the United States.

 

GP

 

Identification 5103

The weapon

 

It is about a revolver with central percussion and top break of type S&W.

The lock seems me to be of hammerless type although the photographs are hardly explicit in this place!! I thus have a doubt?

The opening is practiced by pressing two pedals placed on both sides console, system corresponding to a patent n° 064421 of the 8.3.1884 of Léonard WARNANT-FRANQUET (see technical drawing in appendix).

The rifled bore is round with a rectangular higher band carrying a back sight in half-moon.

The grooved cylinder is with 5 rooms of gauge 8mm.

 

Punches

 

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG on star in a crowned oval: final acceptance post 1893.

 

AR crowned: countermark of the controller post 1877.

 

R crowned: rifled bore, of use of 1894 to 1968.

 

Marks

 

SEL under a small triangle: isn't the reading of this mark certain, that could just as easily be BEL?? This mark was not discovered in the book of markings arms manufacturers of Liège!

 

CAL 8/MM: gauge weapon.

 

L crowned: this mark should be the mark of the foundry in theory having produced this cylinder but this information could not still be confirmed.

 

396: serial number.

 

11: marking of workshop?

 

The holster

 

These weapons of average manufacture were produced in thousands of specimens for export. They were sold most of the time by batches of 100 parts. They were never accompanied by any holsters. Your specimen is not thus origin but subsequently added in the country of purchase of your weapon.

 

GG

 

 

Identification 5104

 

The weapon

 

It is about a shotgun to central percussion.

The steel barrels are smooth and juxtaposed.

They with gauge 12 (18,2 mm) and are chokes.

Locks are “ahead” with hammers external and key of opening between those.

The trigger is double under trigger guard.

The stick out of wooden of walnut (?) is of type “pistol”.

 

Punches

 

The weapon is struck punches of the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

 

ELG on star in an oval under crown: final acceptance post 1893.

 

Peron: inspection post 1853.

 

T and V spangled: countermarks of the controllers post 1877.

 

EL in English letters: provisional test, of use of 1852 to our days.

 

12 C in a rhombus: gauge, of use of 1898 to 1924.

 

17,4: gauge in mm, of use of 1889 to our days.

 

18.0 chokes barrels gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth.

18.0 In use of 1910 to 1924.

 

The manufacturer

 

129: should be a serial number?

 

The punches teach us that the weapon was manufactured in LIEGE between 1910 and 1924.

 

New Haven Arms is probably a trademark fictitious because it does not appear in documentation, just like the word INTERCHANGEABLE which us was already announced on the mark REGENT ARMS quite as unknown!

These fictitious denominations were not rare in LIEGE at this time, they were probably intended to mislead the customs of the countries of South America large importers of weapons of Liege. It’s also probable that the import duties were important! The traffic of weapons was currency running fine of the XIXe beginning of the XXe century.

For the small history, documentation gives a report on a mark REGENT allotted in 1913 to the manufacturer SCHNORRENBERG W & Fils street of the South, 5 in Brussels. We are unaware of if there is correlation between these elements?

 

GG

 

Identification 5105

 

L’arme

 

Il s’agit d’un pistolet à percussion centrale, à répétition manuelle et à bloc descendant qui ressemble assez fort au bien connu pistolet REFORM.

A la différence prêt qu’ici le bloc descend du haut vers le bas.

Les 4 canons sont superposés et le calibre n’a pas été communiqué, du 6,35 vraisemblablement.

Comme les poinçons l’indiquent, l’arme a été fabriquée à LIEGE. Elle ne porte aucune marque de fabricant ni de brevet ce qui semble indiquer une copie ou une adaptation.

La recherche dans les brevets est demeurée vaine.

L’arme porte une jolie gravure en fond creux représentant à gauche une couronne (royale ?) et des feuilles de chênes et à droite une croix pattée entourée de deux glaives.

Les plaquettes en bois de noyer ( ?) sont également sculptées de feuilles de chênes.

 

Les poinçons

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG sur étoile dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

Double B inversés sous une étoile : contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

 

R couronné : canons rayés, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

 

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

 

Les marques

 

Aucune marque de fabricant n’est visible sur l’arme.

ND – ML et FL sous une plaquette, sont des marques de sous-traitant non identifiés.

 

GG

 

Identification 5106

 

L’arme

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à canons juxtaposés.

Ces canons en damas de type OXFORD sont à âme lisse et de calibre 12 ou 17,4 mm.

Les platines sont de type « en avant », les chiens sont extérieurs, la clé TOP entre ceux-ci.

Je n’ai pu déchiffrer le motif de la plaque de couche (en corne moulée ou en gutta-percha)

 

Les poinçons

 

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG sur étoile dans un ovale couronné. : Acceptation définitive post 1893.

 

Perron : inspection post 1853.

 

12 C dans un losange : calibre, en usage de 1898 à 1924.

 

SCH surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée (Schultze),

                                                      En usage de 1891 à 1968.

 

17,4 : calibre en mm : en usage de 1889 à nos jours.

 

P 1K535, 2 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (arme lisse), en usage

                    De 1892 à 1924.

 

D = ?????? (illisible sur la photo) Longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm

                                                      Après épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée.

En usage de v1892 à 1924.

 

Les marques

 

HENRI PIEPER A LIEGE : marque du fabricant, rue des Bayards à LIEGE (voir sa fiche sur le site).

 

Canon OXFORD Extra (si bien lu ?) Grand Prix de Paris 1880 : sans commentaires. 

 

Marque du chevalier BAYARD : marque du fabricant ci-dessus.

 

SPECIALE EMPLOI POUDRE BLANCHE : se disait de la poudre vive par opposition à la poudre noire.

 

GG

 

Identification 5107

 

L’arme

 

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale

Les canons en damas sont juxtaposés et à âme lisse.

La fermeture se fait à l’aide d’une clé placée sous le pontet de sous-garde.

Les platines sont « en arrière » et les chiens extérieurs à percuteurs apparents.

La crosse en bois de noyer ( ?) est façonnée à l’anglaise.

 

Les poinçons

 

Elle est frappée des poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

 

ELG sur étoile dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive en usage de 1846 à 1893.

 

Perron : inspection post 1853.

 

M et Z étoilés : contremarques des contrôleurs post 1877.

 

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

 

18.2  17.4 : canons chokés : calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse et à la bouche.

                   En usage de 1898 à 1910.

 

Période de fabrication : les poinçons ci-dessus, nous indique une période de fabrication allant de 1898 à 1910.

 

Marquages

 

SYSTEME H. ROCHATTE BREVETE A PARIS : indique que cette arme est au système ROCHATTE mais j’ignore de quoi il s’agit n’ayant pas accès aux brevets français.

 

N° 4993 : numéro de série.

 

HR dans un cercle : marque de l’inventeur.

 

Fabrication : il était très fréquent que les industriels armuriers français du XIXe siècle viennent faire fabriquer leurs armes à LIEGE ou la main d’œuvre était nombreuse, qualifié et moins cher que partout ailleurs !

 

GG

 

Identification 5108

Hello,

It is indeed a French rifle, here are the answers of the specialists.

Alain

 

Hello

It is indeed an ordinary punch of test black powder of Saint Etienne.

But I don’t know to what corresponds this 17.2.

To my knowledge, gauge 18 doesn’t exist ….

To give an idea: gauge 12 fact a little more than 18 mm (gun without choke, as the machine which undoubtedly occupies us), a gauge 16 fact a little less than 17 Misters the 17.2 COULD be a gauge 16 (with the accent on the conditional one).

As for LRE: there are thirty pages of arms manufacturers whose name starts with L… in Jarlier/Buignier: not the time of all to read!

Oscar

 

Good evening,

Rifle with percussion of the ID 1918 is a traditional piston rifle of cal 16 manufactured in Saint Etienne.

The punch of test is that in function between 1869 and 1879, which is very late for a rifle with percussion, and makes me think of a rifle export or of draft, because it is of very ordinary quality, without squares, engraving and with a barrel in iron.

The mark of gunner LRE is unknown for me.

Jacques (France)

 

 

Retour "Page d'accueil"

Back "Home"