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It is about a shotgun to pinfire type Lefaucheux, barrels juxtaposed in (false) Damas, stock in walnut (?) imitation American walnut tree, trigger guard with festoons, locks “behind”, tested with St Etienne and of gauge 12 (the figure 17.2 on one of the barrels indicates the diameter of this last to height of the choke, and such a figure corresponds to gauge 12).

SEYVE J = SEYVE Jean, gunner, street of Low Vernay, 23 in Saint Etienne, around 1868.

In short, it would be about a French production located, undoubtedly, in the third quarter of the 19th century.

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type. The key of opening is of type “Top Lever”.

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1898 to 1968.

D = 70 m/m /20.7: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1892 to 1924.

Choke 17.5/18.4: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

NF in an oval lying: this mark wasn't found in file, in any assumption it could possibly act of the arms manufacturer of Liège Noël FRANSQUET (see the website).

CHRISTOPHE L.: gunsmith in Brussels Gallery of the Queen around 1912. It is him who sold the weapon.

Garanti pour poudre sans fumée (Guaranteed for smoke-free powder): this mark is in fact a publicity.

It is about a revolver of the type “BULLDOG” of origin of Liège. The percussion is central. The gauge is of 450. The cylinder is with 6 shots. The barrel with sides is striped, it carries a front sight in half-moon. The cartridge supply is practiced by the door (pretense missing) right back. The curved trigger is placed inside an oval trigger guard. The squared plates seem to be in walnut. They are joined together by a central screw.

WEBLEY: this mark was struck the barrel in a rather disordered way. It is absolutely not the mark of the famous English manufacturer!

It is extremely possible which this weapon was recently chrome because it does not seem to present any trace of wear.

The weapon does not carry any mark making it possible to identify its manufacturer, it will thus remain anonymous, which was very current at the time.

It is about a revolver top break of the type S&W. The opening is practiced by raising the cylinder placed on the top of the weapon. The barrel is with 5 blows of ignored gauge. The cylinder is striped and equipped with a front sight in half-moon. Both grips do bakelite seem to be out of, they also carry an illegible monogram which could be the initial ones of the manufacturer of Liège??

- PAULUS, Jean (BE 1924/1929) street J.Hermesse, 69 in Jupille. FROM 1904 à1926, it deposits 6 patents.

This last could be appropriate but I do not have anything to confirm this possibility!

LL - NR in a circle - letter a: it also acts of markings of not identified subcontractors.

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale et canons juxtaposé de calibre 28 (14,4 mm). La platine est carrée et la clé de brisure (ouverture) « Top lever ».La crosse en noyer est de type « pistolet ».

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

28-65 dans un oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de douille, en usage du 30 juin 1924 à nos jours.

J F & C° : marque du fabricant liégeois JANSSEN Fils & C° rue Lambert le Bègue, 4. BE 1895/1937)- Voir le site pour plus de renseignements.

It is about a rifle of the type MARTINY HENRY (calibres been unaware of?) manufactured in Liege as the punches of tests attest some below. Except error of my share, it could be a question of the model “sporting files” using cartridge 577/450

This weapon does not carry any mark unfortunately making it possible to identify the manufacturer.

Is it about a pistol flintlock type “Navy hollando-Belgian” (1815/1830) with civil destination because he doesn't it carry any Belgian military punch nor Dutch seems it?

This weapon was already identified on our site (See Belgian lawful weapons) with in particular crowned mark DN of the manufacturer not identified.

S and Cie: it is probably about a mark of manufacturer or of subcontractor (not identified)

N crowned: countermark of the controller of the proofhouse, of use of 1853 to 1877.

Anchors of navy with two partially unobtrusive letters (D C??): This mark probably belongs, but without certainty, at firm O.P. Drissen & Co.

The weapon carry punch ELG* in a vertical oval of the proofhouse of Liège meaning its final acceptance of use of 1818 to 1893. That gives us an invaluable indication on its origin.

It is about a revolver not identified with central percussion. The cylinder with 6 shots is smooth (full) the trigger guard is with volutes. The barrel is round with half-round front sight. The grips are in walnut squared. The round rod with head is maintained in a system with spring under the barrel.

The gun carries following engraving “F. CLAUDIN Bté to Paris, data base of the Italians, 38. Celebrate Parisian arms manufacturer.

Il s’agit d’une carabine genre "WARNANT" dite de "sport" de calibre 22 Flobert. Le pontet est à volutes. Le chien extérieur et le guidon (tenon mortaise) de type trapézoïdal. La crosse est vraisemblablement en "fruitier".

Cette arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

Marque représentant un lion dressé sur ses postérieurs et tenant un mat à drapeau avec l’indication ACIER FIN. Cette marque ne figure pas dans ma documentation.

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion centrale et deux canons lisses juxtaposés de calibre 16. Le système est de type "hammerless" avec d’ouverture "top lever". Les platines sont dites "en avant" et sont gravées d'arabesques ainsi que la marque FORGERON. Bien que non complètement visible, la crosse me semble être façonnée "à l’anglaise".

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

16-65 dans un oméga : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille, en usage de 1924 à nos jours.

CHOKE 17.0 et 16.3 (si bien lu ?) : canons chokés, calibrés à 22 cm de la culasse. En usage de 1924 à 1968.

BROU : j’ignore la signification de cette gravure, peut-être s’agit ’il de l’endroit de résidence du propriétaire ??

A. FORGERON : il s’agit du fabricant liégeois FORGERON Alphonse, rue Adolphe Borgnet, 5 à Liège. Il était inscrit au banc d’épreuves liégeois de 1880 à 1932. L’entreprise a été reprise en 1932 par BOULANGER, Joseph, rue St Léonard, 492/494.

ACIER COMPRIMé CAP – Tête d’aigle : CAP Henri, Joseph était fabricant de canons de fusils, à Liège rue Jonruelle, 62. L’intéressé était titulaire de 4 brevets d’inventions.

It is about a revolver of the type “BULL DOG” with central percussion. Calibre 6,35mm. The rifled bore is with 8 sides and carries a front sight in half-moon. The trigger is folding without trigger guard. The rod is folding under the barrel. The stick carry two plates not of origin, are they rather coarsely cut in a wood not identified and are maintained by two screws each one !!

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liège, that is to say:

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

A crown + F.A.R. Patented system: Fabrique d’Armes Réunies S.A. Street Trapped, 22 in Liege. Registered trademark 29.12.1910.

It is about a rifle of living room or garden with central or annular percussion (nonvisible on the request?). The lock is of type WARNANT. The barrel is with 8 sides. The English stick seem me to be out of fruit-bearing wood.

ELG* in a crowned oval: (read so well?) final Acceptance of use of 1893 to 1968.

C. CLEMENT LIEGE: mark from the manufacturer Charles Clément, street Chéri, 37 in LIEGE. Activity of 1883 to 1912. Author of 35 improvement and patents. He will also deposit 14 trademarks (see the site).

LLA Or H? : In any assumption marks of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles Laurent LOCHET HABRAN of Jupille.

ML: Does assumption mark of the dealer Manufacture liégeoise d’armes à feu??

Il s’agit d’un fusil à silex à un coup. Le canon est à huit pans. La platine est de type « en avant » et la contre platine à deux vis. Le chien est en col de cygne. La crosse semble être en bois de fruitier ?

Sur le site il y a un J. Valet, cela pourrait être Jean, Jacques ou Joseph, c'est impossible à dire. On ne peut pas savoir s'il s'agit du même ou pas !

La mention "A Liège" ne nous aide pas non plus puisqu'il s'agit d'une arme du 18ième que la Belgique n'existe qu'à partir de 1830!!

La mention HDL frappée sur le canon appartient vraisemblablement au fabricant de canons de fusils originaire de la vallée de la Vesdre (entre Liège et Verviers) mais il ne figure pas non plus sur la liste des canonniers !?

Appel est lancé à nos lecteurs pour l’éventuelle identification de cet armurier liégeois du 18^e siècle ?

Il s’agit d’une carabine fabriquée à Liège à 1 coup de type Gewehr 88 à percussion centrale. Le canon long est de calibre 10,4 mm. Le chargement/déchargement se pratique à l’aide d’un verrou. La crosse (bois ?) est de type pistolet. (Le fusil à répétition Gewehr 1888 fut adopté par l'Allemagne en remplacement du Mauser 71/84. Il fut remplacé en 1898 par le Mauser Gewehr 98.C'est le premier fusil à tirer la 7,92 mm Mauser)

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à 1968.

Les 3 barres différemment positionnées sont des marques d’équipeurs. Ceux-ci marquaient leurs pièces presque en chiffres romains.

In the years 1850-1860, there was in Birmingham a certain John Plumb Clabrough, arms manufacturer, who travelled in all USA and installed one or two workshops, inter alia in San Francisco. It then returned to England, and later his son joined Johnstone and still another fellow, also arms manufacturers, who took again his business.

The company Clabrough & Johnstone was known for their conversions into small gauge of rifles Lee Enfield and Lee Metford.

The top of the barrel is marked “Johnstone - Pittsburgh”, but it was tested in Birmingham, since it carries the punch (law of 1813) 2 cross sceptres + crown+ letters BPC and the indication of the calibre in a rhombus. With my opinion, this weapon must date from the beginning of the years 1900 (the Calbrough-Johnstone firm seems to have existed until 1925 (Approximately). The wood was also repaired by a manufacturer of cans (instead of resticking with wood pin). I did not find other details up to now.

If one looks in Flayderman, pages 745 and following, one finds the list of the American manufacturers of “damascus double”, but not trace of Calbrough nor of Johnstone. This rifle resembles those done by Ithaca (style of the hammers), but that wants nothing to say.

The part that you have is a rare weapon, it's pity that it is not in very good conditon but perhaps that a restoration in the respect of its age made by a professional could return a better aspect to him!?

This weapon is not the system Martini-Henri, but the system Martini-Francotte, it is Francotte which modified the system Martini, very complicated to dismount, while making it very simple to dismount and to clean!

The mention “Machine made by A. Francotte &Cie” means that it is one of the first weapons which was manufactured with the machine, and not manually. That made it possible Francotte to manufacture weapons whose parts were interchangeable, which did not exist at the time.

The marking "Fait pour MR. ED. Wenig St. Petersburg" means “Made for Mister ED. Wenig St Petersburg”. It is thus an order this people (Perhaps a gunsmith).

It is about a pinfire pocket revolver of the type LEFAUCHEUX manufactured per thousand in the area of Liege at that time. The cylinder is smooth and probably with 6 shots. The trigger is curved without trigger guard. The plates of grips joined together by a screw are smooth. The rifled bore is with eight sides without front sight (lost?) the hammer is with head punt for cartridges with pin. The rod is also missing?

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

AR coupled and spangled: countermark of the controller, of use of 1877 to 1968.

ZTB: it is probably about a trademark. It is not known in Liege. It has, in any assumption, struck by the dealer not identified!

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à percussion (cap and ball) fabriqué par la société CENTAURE à LIEGE dans les années 1960/1970. Ces reproductions ont eu un certain succès à l’époque. Les canons en acier sont juxtaposés et lisse, ils sont de calibre 18 mm qui correspond à du calibre 12. Les chiens sont extérieurs et destinés à frapper les amorces (capsules) posées sur les cheminées. Les platines sont de type « en avant ». La double détente est sous pontet. Une baguette métallique est maintenue sous les canons. La crosse façonnée à l’anglaise est en hêtre, le hêtre est nettement moins chers que le bois utilisé pour les armes de qualité qui était toujours le noyer.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

ELG dans un ovale vertical non étoilé : canons bouchés, en usage de 1893 à nos jours.

Votre fusil est donc une arme moderne, fabriqué dans les années '70 par la société "Fabrique d'armes unies de Liège".

It is about a revolver with (seems-it to me?) annular percussion. The loading is practiced by the right back door with cartridges with annular percussion and carrying the mark B (?).

The weapon carries an engraving representing of the foliage and the birds. The grips of wood (?) are carved of foliage and finish by a ring and without screw-pivot. The trigger is curved in an oval trigger guard. The rod under the barrel is maintained by a small metal tube into which it is slipped and fixed by a small screw. The barrel (gauges?) is round and is surmounted by a rectangular band with front sight and bead.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say

There is one (very) weak possibility that this mark belongs LEFAUCHEUX, the immense arms manufacturer known in the whole world.

It is about a rifle pinfire of draft of Liège. The barrel is with 8 sides. The stick (wood?) English is with cheek. The opening is practiced using a side key. The hammer is posed on the right side. The trigger guard is with volutes.

The weapon also carries a trademark or the initial ones of the owner, is GL (read so well?) in a vertical oval. Couldn't this mark be identified??

R in a circle: could be a mark (armed Belgian?) of a company of bomb disposal experts???

INVENTION P.L. N° 82 GEVELOT: Jules-Felix GEVELOT was a French industrialist (1826/1904) owner of a factory of cartridges with Isy Moulinaux!

This weapon is a rifle of which the patent of improvement at summer deposited in Belgium under number 20241 by My sieurs Lagrèze & Pidault on February 27th, 1867, patent which makes following several patents deposited both in France and in Belgium.

Invention P.L. N° 82 Gevelot means that the invention is of P(idault) L(agréze) and that the manufacturer is Gévelot.

Patents in France on June 13th, 1842 for the invention of a cylinder head turning on an axis (This rifle was manufactured by Gevelot), on June 16th, 1842 for a rifle with loading by the cylinder head and on July 12th, 1848 for simplification of the turntable.

He is also holder of the patent of the revolver Pidault é& Tevis deposited on May 16th, 1856, for the revolver Pidault & Cordier péposé on May 28th, 1860 (known under the name “Raphaël Revolver”), and finally for a rifle with loading by the cylinder head Lagrèze & Pidault on February 25th, 1867.

Il s’agit d’un revolver à percussion centrale et carcasse fermée. Le canon est à 8 pans avec guidon en demi-lune. Le barillet alvéolé est à 6 coups. La baguette est articulée. La détente est courbe dans un pontet ovale. La crosse est constituée de deux plaquettes en bois (noyer ??) quadrillées. Elles sont maintenues par une vis centrale, les rosettes de laiton sont rondes. Le chargement/déchargement se pratique par la portière latérale droite s’abaissant grâce à l’action d’un ressort interne.

Le poinçon ELG* dans un ovale couronné (peu visible) indique l’acceptation de la visite au banc d’épreuves du 11 juillet 1893 au 26 février 1968.

It is about a revolver with central percussion. The cylinder is smooth and seems to be with 6 blows (non visible on photographs). The loading is practiced via the door of loading placed on the right side of the weapon. The rifled bore is with 8 sides with bodies of aiming. A rod sliding in two eyelets is fixed on the right side under the gun. The stick consists of two plates out of wooden smooth (Walnut ?) and fixed by a central screw at ears. It ends in a metal ring and its screw-pivot.

"MEYERS PATENTS" is “probably” the gunmaker of Cheratte (Liege) MEYERS Guillaume, Joseph, author of 6 Belgian patents deposited of 1866 to 1879. The absence of first name on the mark complicates the identification considering other manufacturers of the area of CHERATTE carried the same patronymic?! (See the site).

It is about a revolver with central percussion and box frame. This weapon is “drop system” i.e. the barrel perhaps rocked towards the line using the lever placed under the barrel!

If I am not mistaken, this weapon corresponds to the patent n° 062109 of 19 July 1883 deposited by the arms manufacturer Jean WARNANT of Hoignée-Cheratte.

It is about a revolver with central percussion of type “BULLDOG” of origin of Liège. The smooth cylinder is with 6 blows. The loading/unloading of the cartridges is practiced by a door on the right side of the weapon. The trigger is curved under oval trigger guard. The probably striped barrel is short and round with a frnt sight in half-moon. The squared grips are kind “ebony or false ebony”. They are fixed by a central screw and two brass rivet washers.

At the time, the weapon passed in the hands of various corporations of arms manufacture and the least important left a mark often not identified on the weapon.

It is about a revolver with 10 shots says “mitrailleuse” (machine-gun). The cylinder is with 10 blows with pin in only one line of rooms on the cylinder. Gauges it is not indicated, 7 or 9 mm?? Already Lefaucheux had manufactured revolvers with 12 blows, CHAINEUX of Liege followed with product many revolvers of this type.

The weapon also carries the initial P.J which remain not identified. Is it' a manufacturer, a subcontractor or simply the first purchaser? I am unaware of it, sorry!

Shotgun to central percussion and locks of “hammerless” type. The opening is practiced using a key known as “Top Lever”. The unrifled bores of gauge 16 are juxtaposed. Locks ahead are engraved “with bouquets”. A safety with slide of the Galand type is placed behind the key Top lever. The stick in walnut of worked "with English".

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

16-65 in the letter omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing. In use of 1924 to our days.

1Kg358: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

Choke 16.9: chokes barrels: gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use of June 30th, 1924 at February 1968.

Bow with arrows in a circle: mark of the Liège manufacturer CAP & GILLES Réunis S.A. manufacturers of barresl of rifles, street Chéri, 40 in Liege around 1924.

Cette arme est un "Pistolet de cycliste", également appelé "pistolet à moineaux" ou même "VeloDog", ou encore "pistolet de facteur", calibre 6mm bosquette, canon lisse, fabriqué à des milliers d'exemplaires en Belgique ou en France vers 1895-1905 et exportés dans toute l'Europe. A l’achat de …., vous receviez un petit pistolet cycliste en prime !!

Il en existe de toutes les tailles et modèles, certains ont un éjecteur et une culasse à guillotine. Ces éjecteurs et guillotines pouvant être munis de leviers de toutes tailles

Certains n’ont même pas cela, il faut enlever la cartouche tirée avec une tige par l’intérieur.

La plupart ont été fabriqués en France ou en Belgique, vendu "en blanc" en Allemagne, et éprouvé à Brême. Le U surmonté de deux couronnes est le poinçon officiel de Brême et signifie "untersucht" (éprouvé).

Finition peu soignée, mais folklore oblige. Ces machins se vendaient par paniers entiers sur les marchés et étaient offerts en prime à tout acheteur d'un vélo (ou d’autre chose).

Ces petits pistolets, dont certains ont un canon allant jusqu'à 20 cm et présentent parfois une finition acceptable sont amusants à collectionner, il y a des dizaines de variantes.

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse à double clés de type Lefaucheux. La percussion est centrale et les chiens sont extérieurs. Les canons lisses (calibre ?) sont juxtaposés. Les platines sont dites "en arrière".

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves liégeois, à savoir :

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire, en usage de 1852 à nos jours.

LEPAGE et F. CHAUVOT Bté : il s’agit des inventeurs parisiens de cette arme qu’ils ont fait fabriquer à Liège la main d’œuvre y étant moins chère ! Le fabriquant liégeois quant’ à lui n’a laissé aucune marque permettant de l’identifier.

Rifle with vertical percussion (with pin) of type LEFAUCHEUX made in Liege by an arms manufacturer remained unknown. That was often the case Mr. H.GRENU in NANTES was patentee (unknown?) which related to this weapon i.e. an unspecified improvement of Lefaucheux rifle. The weapon is with double key Lefaucheux. The trigger guard is with volutes. The stick in walnut is worked "with English". Engraving is "with bouquets". Locks are of type “behind” and the hammers of the dolphins type.

The weapon carries the punches indicating its origin i.e. the proofhouse of Liege, namely:

The manufacturer of Liège unfortunately did not leave any mark or indication allowing to identify it !

Shotgun to central percussion. The two barrels are juxtaposed (in table). Locks are of type “hammerless” with key of opening “top lever”. The stick in walnut is worked "with English".

The weapon carries various punches of tests which I tried to decide between as follows:

Choke 18.3: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use in Liege of June 30th, 1924 before February 26th, 1968.

NP surmounted of an armed wing of a saber: Ordinary test with the smoke-free powder on the barrel (London)

Etablissements Britte Liège Belgique (Establishments Britte Liege Belgium): it is the manufacturer of the weapon installed with LIEGE-VIVEGNIS, 252 street of Cheratte by 1924. (See the site)

Médaille d’or au grand prix de l’exposition universelle Bruxelles (Gold medal with the Grand Prix of the World Fair Brussels): without comment. Probably the exhibition of 1935.

Head of eagle: it would be about a mark of the manufacturer of barrels of rifles CAP Henri street Jonruelle, 62 in Liege.

Obviously is it about a copy (Cap & Ball) of the revolver COLT 1853 manufactured by the firm of Liège “Cléments Arms C°”.

The plates of grips don't seem to me origin? The cylinder with 6 blows is smooth and with central percussion.

The punches are difficult to decipher. I think without certainty of having located the letters AH crowned which would belong to the controller of the proofhouse valid of Liège of 1877 to 1968? (It is your odd mark!!)

The weapon thus carries a marking far from readable (Clément Armes C°), which would belong to the manufacturer well-known inhabitant of Liège at the time is Charles Clement street Chéri, 37 in Liege. It was active of 1883 to 1912 (year of its death) It was the author of 35 patents and 14 trademarks.

It is about a shotgun to juxtaposed barrels. Those are different gauges is 9mm and of the 22. The system is of type WARNANT. Is it difficult for me on photographs to determine if it is about a system with central or perhaps annular percussion? The stick in walnut is of “cheek”. The trigger guard protecting two triggers is with volutes.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

This weapon is system WARNANT but any mark of any manufacturer does not seem to carry.

It is about a shotgun of the type LEFAUCHEUX conceived to draw cartridges with pin. The juxtaposed unrifled bores seem to be of gauge 15 (17.6 mm). The trigger guard with volutes recovers two curved triggers. The two hammers are with head punt. The buttplate "on return" is engraved as most other metal parts.

The weapon presents the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

AL BERNARD BREVETE (PATENTS): only one Bernard Al of Liege appearing in documentation appoints the agent of a Belgian patent in 1855 for a new Damas applicable to the barrels of weapons of luxury and Damas known as lengthened. Would it be thus here the manufacturer of barrels of rifles and not the manufacturer of the weapon which remains anonymous?

It is about a rifle WARNANT to annular percussion. The rifled bore is with eight sides with front sight (tenon-mortise) and bead out of V. The extractor is with ear. The trigger is curved and is protected by a trigger guard with volutes. The metal buttplate is "on return". The stick "with English" seems to be in walnut.

This weapon does not carry any punch of the proofhouse of Liege although this weapon is originating in this city.

WARNANT PATENTS: mark of the inventive of Liège. The Warnant family was well represented in the circle of the arms manufacturers of Liège. Most important was Jean Warnant at the beginning of the 20th century (see the site). The absence of first name makes the identification difficult, 15 arms manufacturers bearing this name!!!

MLI (read so well?) in an oval lying: it is probably the manufacturer of Liège of the weapon or possibly a subcontractor.

It is about a copy of Liège of rifle with English percussion 1878 TOWER with one shot also carrying the English royal crown.

This weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, attesting of its Belgian origin.

ELG* in a vertical oval: it is the mark of final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

It is about a revolver called “to rocker” or “top break” of type S&W. The lock is with simple and double action. The cylinder is smooth and comprises 6 rooms (gauges not communicated?). The opening starts by a button placed on the console right side behind the barrel. The rifled bore is with 8 sides with front sight in half-moon. The grips consists of two plates in walnut (?) squared connected by a transverse screw and two rivet washers. It ends in a ring and a screw-pivot. The curved trigger is protected by an oval trigger guard.

P. behind the cylinder: I am unaware of the significance of it, perhaps acts it of a mark of subcontractor.

RDA: this mark can-being incomplete and thus difficult to identify. Idem for the resembling drawing perhaps representing a fish?

The weapon is of “type "Jean WARNANT" of HOGNEE-CHERATTE (Province of Liège) which carried out many models of revolvers top break. Its mark does not appear however on the present weapon. Perhaps' it is about a very frequent copy at the time and not signed of course!!

Il s’agit d’un fusil à percussion mono-coup à brisure. Le canon, vraisemblablement lisse, est à 8 pans et est fixé par deux "brassadelles". Il porte les organes de visée habituels comme le guidon inséré par tenon-mortaise et le cran de mire à plusieurs positions. Le canon est fixé dans la batterie par une seule vis et un crochet. Le chien est placé sur le flanc arrière droit. Ce qui me semble être une sûreté est placée à côté du chien, elle pénètre par glissement dans le corps de la platine pour venir bloquer l’ouverture (brisure) du canon ? La détente sous pontet ovale est courbe. La crosse en noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise. Le tenon fixe à l’extrémité du canon devrait servir à la fixation d’une baïonnette ?

Cette arme présente divers poinçons du banc d’épreuves de Liège, ce qui nous indique son origine liégeoise. Soit les poinçons suivants :

MB – J.D – GD : il s’agit vraisemblablement de marques de sous-traitants non identifiés ayant participé à la fabrication de l’arme.

CM dans un ovale couché : il s’agit très vraisemblablement du marquage du fabricant. Il s’agit peut-être d’une marque appartenant à Charles Masquelier, fabricant d’armes à Liège rue de la Cathédrale, 94 (1911/1925) bien que je pense, au vu des poinçons, que ces dates sont trop tardives.

It is about a revolver of the type R.I.C. (Royal Irish Constabulary) Bulldog or Puppy following its size (nonvisible on the photographs). The cylinder is with ellipses. The trigger is folding under the frame (without trigger guard!) the rod with head of nipple is articulated. The barrel is with 8 sides with semicircular front sight. The plates of grips are invisible.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

C crowned: it acts with my opinion of marking of the manufacturer of cylinder of Herstal.

F.F. in an oval lying: I think that it is the mark of the manufacturer but this one is not indexed in my documentation.

FASTRE-FRAIKIN, Francois, gunmaker with Housse (Province of Liège) author of 4 patents of 1889 to 1902.

It is about a shotgun to central percussion, the hammers are external and the key of opening “Top Lever”. Locks are of type “behind”. The triggers double are protected by an oval trigger guard. The steel barrels are juxtaposed with decorated central band. The weapon is equipped with a forearm not very visible on the photograph?

E12-65 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of casing, of use of 1924 to our days.

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

Letter "f" into tiny: yearly letter of 1927. Date of manufacture of your weapon.

1Kg 636: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of 1924 to our days.

ABV in triangle: who could be the unknown mark of a manufacturer of barrels of rifles of the valley of Vesdre (between Liege and Verviers).

D crowned: mark of DELCOUR-DUPONT Jean, manufacturer of barrels of rifles with FRAIPONT-NESSONVAUX (Province of Liège).

The weapon does not carry the mark of the “manufacturer” itself. That was a relatively current practice at the time.

It is thus about a shotgun to central percussion, with external hammers and unrifled bores "in table". The opening is practiced using a key known as “Top Lever” placed on the top of locks, those are of type “ahead”. The weapon comprises a double trigger under oval trigger guard. The stick is said “to English” out of wood of walnut!

With regard to the punches, they are of origin of Liège, i.e. the profhouse of this city:

28-60 (read so well) in an omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, of use of June 30th, 1924 at our days.

Choke 14.0: chokes barrels, gauged to 22 cm of the breech. In use from June 30th, 1924 to February 26th, 1968.

TROXADO DAMASCO: twisted Damas, although that is not visible on the photographs (wear?).

The weapon most probably intended for export does not carry any mark of manufacturer as that was often the case to avoid customs taxations.

One cannot give exact date but the punches of the proofhouse gives a fork of 1924 to 1968.

FLACHAT (mais lequel) et Merley Delmont sont les fabricants de votre fusil. L'un a vraisemblablement fabriqué les canons, et l'autre l'arme entière.

Ce qui suit est l'ensemble des réponses que j'ai reçus, certaines sont en "Vieux François", ce ne sont pas des fautes, c'est normal. Ils se sont amusés !!

Il FRAPPE AVANT QUE LA FLAMME NE BRILLE, suivant le collier de la Toison d'or le symbole est un "fusil" c'est-à-dire en vieux français un briquet, une pièce de fer qui, battue contre un silex permettait de créer le feu. Naturellement le mot fusil s'est ensuite adapté pour devenir une arme. Il est naturel qu'un armurier sans doute féru d'histoire s'empare de ce symbole.

Au sens étymologique cela veut dire que le chevalier ne frappe que si on le provoque. Il portera le coup dès la moindre provocation avant qu'elle devienne brillante. Cela s'applique à tout blasphème ou contre l'honneur chevaleresque.

Elle-même se compose d'une belle toison dorée, que l'on retrouve aux cous du Bon et du Téméraire sur tous leurs portraits, mais aussi de briquets et de pierres illustrant la devise de l'ordre : Ante Ferit Quam Flamma Micet (Il frappe avant que la flamme ne brille), et dans lesquels on trouve deux B entrecroisés, montrant la souveraineté du duc sur les deux Bourgogne (le duché et le comté, aujourd'hui Franche-Comté, voilà qui devrait achever de convaincre nos camarades franc-comtois de rejoindre nos rangs).

on parle de Briquet à pierre ( silex ) il frappe avant que jaillisse la flamme ou la lumière

They are a pair of pistols known as “Scottish” with percussion. The system with box is equipped with a central hammer with percussion. The grips is in walnut of good quality, it ends in a metal cap equipped with a starter receptacle with lid in the shape of shell St Jacques. A fine floral engraving decorates the box.

The weapon also carries a mark (of the manufacturer?) GM not identified as such but which could perhaps correspond to the one of the arms manufacturers following inhabitants of Liège:

In theory this kind of weapon is rather made to draw at very short distance, almost with the contact!!

It is about a small revolver with annular percussion said “Vélo-dog”. The calibre is of 6 mm. The short barrel is with 8 sides with front sight in half-moon. I am unaware of if it is striped because not announced! The hammer is with ball. The cylinder with 5 blows is long to accept the long cartouche vélo-dog. The rod is articulated. The trigger swell without trigger guard is folded up in the carcass. Both grips are out of black wood (ebony or false ebony?) and are fixed using a central screw.

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

L crowned: could it belong to a manufacturer of barrels (Herstal) not identified?

The amount of stick carries several marks of which some are illegible, that is to say:

Il s’agit d’une carabine à un coup de type WARNANT de calibre 9 mm. Le canon est à 8 pans et le pontet à volutes. Le système de percussion est de type WARNANT bien connu. La crosse à l’anglaise semble être en bois de fruitier.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

RW : marque du fabricant liégeois WARNANT René, inscrit au banc d’épreuves liégeois de 1912 à 1956. Il est l’auteur de 4 brevets d’invention. En 1934, il reprend l’activité de WARNANT Emile.

AD JANSEN ARMURIER BRUXELLES (gravé sur la crosse) : il s’agit du revendeur bruxellois bien connu (voir le site).

Il s’agit d’un fusil à verrou à un coup et à percussion centrale. La crosse en bois de noyer est façonnée à l’anglaise. Le canon d’acier est rond. Cette arme de fabrication liégeoise n’est pas clairement identifiée. Elle porte néanmoins les poinçons du banc d’épreuves liégeois, à savoir :

ELG* dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1893 à 1968.

Il ressemble étrangement au fusil "Gras" français, sauf le fait que le verrou est coudé mais peut-être ce modèle existe t'il dans les différentes fabrications du fusil Gras !?

It is about a shotgun to double juxtaposed barrels (gauges?). Locks are known as “behind”. The hammers are external. The key superior is known as “Top Lever”. The double trigger is under oval trigger guard. The forearm is not enough visible to determine its type. The stick in walnut is worked "with English".

The weapon also carries the mark of the manufacturer, that is to say FAND HANQUET LIEGE, it acts of the arms manufacturer of Liège Ferdinand HANQUET registered with the profhouse of Liège of 1872 to 1920. The company will be taken again in 1920 by the Fabrique d’Armes Unies de Liège (F.A.U.L).

It is about a shotgun of the hammerless type to central percussion. The weapon operates using the key superior “Top lever. The weapon is equipped with a safety of the type “Galand”. The stick in walnut is of standard “pistol”. The barrels of gauge 16 are juxtaposed. The double trigger is protected by an oval trigger guard. The forearm is of type “with pump”. It carries a rich animalist engraving gilded on arabesques.

Stylized lion surmounting letters PV: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

Choke 16.2/17.0 and 15.5/17.2: chokes barrels gauged in mm with 22cm of the breech and the mouth. Of use from 2/25/1910 to 6/30/1924.

P1Kg31,6 (read so well?): Weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons). In use from June 11th, 1892 to June 30th, 1924.

D=65/19,0: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. In use from 6/6/1892 to 6/30/1924.

M.C.C.T in a circle: punch of manufacturer of barrels for firearms not identified?

J F and C * in a vertical oval: it is the mark of the manufacturer of Liège JANSEN Fils & Co, street Lambert the stammerer, n° 4. This firm was registered with the ^proofhouse of Liège of 1895 with 1937. It deposited 2 patents for a rifle hammerless with central fire. The firm deposited 28 trademarks.

Mécanisme par la fabrique d’armes de guerre de Herstal: mechanism manufactures by the F.N. HERSTAL!!

It is about a revolver top break of the type S&W to central percussion. The opening is practiced while drawing on the higher pedal in front of the hammer. The cylinder with six shots (gauges 38?) comprises a star extractor. The long barrel is round with a hollow band superior. The grips are out of wood (walnut?) smooth and are maintained by a cross screw.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

FDC 440: it is the mark of the manufacturer François DUMOULIN in LIEGE (Proofhouse 1894/1968) (more complete answer on our site).

Il s’agit d’un revolver à percussion centrale, barillet à 6 à coups, canon mi rond et mi hexagonal avec guidon en demi-lune. La détente est courbe avec pontet ovale à repose à doigt. Les crossettes sont en bois quadrillé noir (noyer ??) avec vis centrale de maintien. La crosse se termine par un anneau et sa vis de calotte.

Modèle NS 1885 et NS : il s’agit des marques du fabricant ! Il pourrait s’air de :

- SIMON Noël, industriel, rue Fontaine, 260 à HERSTAL, auteur de 10 brevets de 1873 à 1892.

- It is about part of shotgun to central percussion of type “hammerless”. The two juxtaposed barrels, of gauge 20, are smooth. The double trigger is under trigger guard.

- The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

P.1K114: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) except for the gram. In use of June 30th, 1924 at our days.

D= 70/17.7: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. 1892/June 30th, 1924.

15.0 - 15.8: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. 1898/1910.

J.G on the barrel: probably a manufacturer of barrels of rifles which I could not identify.

A. GODEFROID J. LEJEUNE-FAUVE SUCCURSALLE LIEGE: In 1885, Godefroid A. shares its activity with Godefroid N. and its brother Godefroid Gustave. In 1913 the activity is taken over by Lejeune Fauvé.

It is about a shotgun to central percussion and external hammers. The key of crack is of standard “Top lever”.

Locks are known as “behind”. The double trigger is under oval trigger guard. The forearm carries a kind of opening which is unknown for me. The stick in walnut is of standard “pistol - to cheek”.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of tests of Liege, that is to say:

CHOKE 16.7/16.9: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of the 25.02.1910 to the 30.06.1924.

The manufacturer of Liège did not leave any visible mark, it will thus remain unknown.

It is about a shotgun to central percussion, hammers external and key of opening “top lever”. The barrels in fine Damas Boston are smooth and of gauge 16. The metal butt plate is with reasons in particular an eagle with the spread wings. The lock called “ahead” are engraved arabesques. The double trigger curved is under an oval trigger guard. The stick of form “pistol” is out of wood of walnut.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

16,4/17,0: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

Not for ball: chokes unrifled bores. In use of 1878 to 1897. These dates are not compatible with others, I am unaware of the cause of it.

J-B Rongé Son in Liège: manufacturer well-known inhabitant of Liège. See the site.

23995 and 23018: marks of manufacturing struck the weapon (guns and battery).

H.W: mark of manufacturer of barrels of rifles of Vesdre (Liege) not indexed.

C'est un Darne R15 (5 symboles Darne ressemblant à un panneau de sens interdit), donc le plus luxueux de la gamme des R qui vont du R10 au R 15 ensuite on monte en gamme et on passe à la gamme "P" (P16, P17, P18) puis à la gamme "V" du 19 au 23 Hors série!

Pour avoir le modèle, il suffit de compter le nombre de poinçons ronds sous la frette et ajouter 10.

Le R10 est marqué type 10.Puis les autres qui n'ont que des poinçons ronds sont:

Les R ont des obturateurs convergents à partir du R13;comme les P et V.( sauf les premières années vers 1900)

Le démontage des canons des R s'opère en basculant un verrou dans la table, alors que les P et V ont un poussoir devant le pontet.

Ce fusil est chambré en 12-65; a subi la triple épreuve à la poudre T à l'état de livraison (foudres)

Les ets Bruchet-Darne à Saint-Etienne peuvent quelque fois donner l'année de sortie avec le N°.

With the risk to strongly disappoint the owner of the weapon, it cannot in no case to be a question of a production of Lebeau-Courally because the weapon is not signed and especially its type and the quality (?) of completion does not correspond to the standards of Lebeau-Courally.

Moreover the punches indicate a manufacturing between 1877 and 1893, but Lebeau-Courally exists only since 1920!!

It is about a shotgun to central percussion. The unrifled bores of gauge 12 are smooth and juxtaposed. Double closing with bolt is actuated by the lever between the hammers. Locks are known as “ahead”. They are decorated with animalist reasons and arabesques. The double trigger is protected by an oval trigger guard. The wood front is of type “with pump”. The stick of walnut (French?) is of standard “pistol”.

The weapon carries the lawful punches of the proofhouse of Liege, that is to say:

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of use of 1898 to 1968.

D= 70%/20.7: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. In use of 1892 to 1924.

Choke 17.6/18.3: chokes barrels, gauged in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use of 1910 to 1924.

P1K562, 1: weight of the barrrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons) Of use of 1892 to 1924.

ACN in a circle: mark of the manufacturer of guns of rifles NEUPREZ in Liege.

PIRLOT & FRESARD LIEGE: mark of the manufacturer of Liège of the weapon which was installed in Liege, street Saint Gilles, 95 (see our site).

It is about a shotgun to central percussion. The double-juxtaposed barrels are smooth and of gauge 16. The forearm is with push rod. The engraving of locks of the hammerless type is of type “melts hollow” it represents a dragon surrounded by foliage.

The punches, of which some are not very readable, emanate from the proofhouse of Liège, namely:

PV surmounted of a stylized lion: test with the smoke-free powder. 1898/1968.

POK997, 8: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (smooth weapons).

D = illegible: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after optional test with the smoke-free powder. 1892/1924.

???/17.0 (Illegible): chokes barrels, gauged in mm with 22cm of the breech and the mouth. 1910/1924.

The weapon also carries engraved to the fine gold, marking EPREUVE A LA POUDRE PYROXILEE (Tested with powder pyroxillee), this kind of powder is a modern powder by comparison of "Black Powder".

It is about a banal pocket revolver of pin of the Lefaucheux type made in Liege in thousands of specimens. The nonalveolate cylinder with six blows is notched for the cartridges with pin. This one is accessible for the loading by the right back door. It carries an engraving of vineleaves. The barrel is round and probably striped with a front sight rectangular. The hammer is with head punt to strike the pins. The metal rod is of standard “nail”. The trigger is folding without trigger guard. The two plates seem to be out of ebony (or false-ebony) and are connected by a central screw to ears.

We use the name “shooting carbine” because of the sighting, a little more elaborate than the classic back-sight, although it is quite crude (in our XXIst century eyes anyway).

There is quite an anachronism between this period of fabrication, and the prize small plates screwed on the butt. The plates, in Danish, come from a first prize given by the Home Ministry in 1871 and from a prize given by the city of Fredericia (Jutland) in 1876. But we have to realize that at this time, metallic cartridges were already used.

First we thought that it was a prize carbine given by the Danish Home Ministry in 1871. But how can the plate form Fredericia in 1876 then been explained? And this plate is followed by another one (also in 1876) with, maybe, the name of the shooter. We also noticed that the screws of the plates are different.

Everything considered, it could be a shooting carbine used – succesfully – up to 1876 by a shooter who got a prize from the Home Ministry in 1871 and another one from the city of Fredericia in 1876.

Anyway, it is a reality that Belgian arms were much used and appreciated far from Belgium.

We had contact with the (very interesting) museum of Arms of Copenhague but they could not help us. In the XIXth century, shooting was very popular, there were a lot of competitions because shooting was then seen as a “national” sport (also for the defence of the country, of course… times change…). And shooting prizes were very various!

Let us also remember that Auguste Francotte made revolvers fort the Danish Cavalry and Danish officers.

Identification 3075

Un classique fusil de chasse juxtaposé hammerless à fermeture à clé « top lever ».

63975 est quasi certainement le n° de l’arme.

Les poinçons :

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire depuis 1852

Perron : poinçon d’inspection en vigueur depuis le 16 juin 1853 jusqu’à nos jours

PV sous lion : épreuve à la poudre vive entre le 4 octobre 1898 et le 26 février 1968

12 C dans un losange : calibre 12 (en usage entre 1898 et 1924)

65 mm correspond à la longueur de la chambre et donc des munitions.

X étoilé et V étoilé : contremarques de contrôleurs en usage entre 1877 et 1968

Poinçon ELG dans un ovale sous couronne : acceptation définitive en usage du 11 juillet 1893 à 1968.

Acier Cockerill : le type d’acier utilisé pour les canons.

P 1 kg 288,3 : poids du canon, en vigueur depuis le 30 juin 1924

AF couronné : poinçon d’Auguste Francotte.

Il est signé « Auguste Francotte Breveté à Liège » sur le canon. Voir le site littlegun.be (armes belges, artisans identifiés) pour l’histoire de cette grande dynastie armurière liégeoise qui a produit tant des armes civiles que militaires pendant un peu moins de deux siècles.

Le recoupement théorique des différentes dates donne une date de fabrication de 1924 mais sans garantie aucune. Aucune archive ne reprends les N° de série des armes de Francotte par date de fabrication !!

Alain Daubresse

Identification 3076

Rifle with two barrels, key top lever, with locks, in calibre 9,3 x 74R with stick in walnut shaped and forearm with psh button fabricated by the society Magilissen, successor to Antoine Defourny, engraved by F. DUPONT (signature under the key).

Bradawls:

Peron (steps): applied examination from 1853 to our days.

PV in oval crowned: punch of acceptance for the lively powder since February 26th, 1968.

2880 kg cm2: undoubtedly the pressure supported by cannons.

0004: serial number of the weapon is more than probably.

He should normally have other marks again there on barrels, and also annual letter.

SL could be put in touch with Saroléa in Haccourt, but without guarantee.

Another arms with an identical signature of F. DUPONT is known to us: it is about a gun of Augustin Dardenne (see on the site littlegun. be). This gun is dated of 1959.

We do not have other information on Magilissen, except that a "garnisseur" of the same name existed in a not known period.

Identification 3084

Hello Mr Bradstreet,

Here is the list of all patents of G. Zeller in Belgium as known for the moment.

The patents of G. Zeller still exist at the “Office de la Propriété intellectuelle” in Brussels ( http://www.1819.be/fr/organisations/office-belge-de-la-propriete-intellectuelle-opri ) and whether they can be consulted and copied.

GP & Max

I can ask all these patent to the "Office de la propriété Intellectuelle" but it is not free, it requires 3 euros per patent. (In high resolution)

Alain

1873	033269	1873/09/17	ZELLER G.	Rue de Launay, 2 MOLENBEEK ST-JEAN (B)	Perf	Système de fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)
1873	032054	1873/02/21	ZELLER G.	Rue de Launay, 2 MOLENBEEK ST-JEAN (B)	Perf	Modifications apportées au fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)
1871	029405	1871/09/28	ZELLER G.	Chaussée de Ninove, 21 BRUXELLES (B)	Perf	Fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)
1871	028795	1871/05/19	ZELLER G.	BRUXELLES (B)	Perf	Modifications apportées au fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)
1872	030334	1872/04/04	ZELLER G.	Rue de Launay, 2 MOLENBEEK ST-JEAN (B)	Perf	Fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)
1877	043476	1877/11/06	ZELLER G.	Fuabourg Vivegnis, 161 LIEGE (B)	Inv.	Fusil se chargeant par la culasse
1871	028941	1871/06/24	ZELLER G.	BRUXELLES (B)	Perf	Modifications apportées au fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)
1870	028220	1870/11/12	ZELLER G.	SAINT JOSSE-TEN-NOODE (B)	Inv.	Système de fusil se chargeant par la culasse
1873	033046	1873/08/05	ZELLER G.	Rue de Launay, 2 MOLENBEEK ST-JEAN (B)	Perf	Modifications apportées au fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)
1872	031136	1872/09/04	ZELLER G.	Rue de Launay, 2 MOLENBEEK ST-JEAN (B)	Perf	Modifications apportées au fusil se chargeant par la culasse (brvt ppal n° 028356 du 31/12/1870)
1870	028356	1870/12/31	ZELLER G.	Rue de la Senne, 75 BRUXELLES (B)	Inv.	Fusil se chargeant par la culasse

Identification 3085

Pistolet espagnol Imperial

Pistolet espagnol modèle « Imperial » en calibre 6,35 mm fabriqué pour ou par la société José Aldazabal d’Eibar, gravé or et plaquettes de nacre.

Aucune photo d’éventuels poinçons ni de marquage.

La région d’Eibar a inondé le marché de pistolets généralement bon marché et de qualité souvent décriée, surtout avant, pendant et après la 1GM. Près d’un million de pistolets type Ruby et de copies de revolvers (notamment Colt et S&W) en 8 mm ont ainsi été vendus à la France pendant la 1GM.

L’arme en question n’a évidemment pas de destination militaire puisqu’il s’agit d’un pistolet en calibre 6,35 mm souvent appelé « type Eibar » (une copie très simplifiée du Browning 1906 ?).

Selon Ian V. Hogg et John Weeks dans leur livre « Pistols of the World », il semble que les pistolets « Imperial » aient été fabriqués par Tomas de Urizar y Cia d’Eibar pour le compte de la société Hijos de José Aldazabal dont les initiales JA apparaissent sur les plaquettes.

Il y a une sûreté à l’arrière du bâti et un bouton de démontage juste au-dessus de la détente.

L’arme a été gravée or dans le style espagnol (Tolède) typique.

La société Urizar d’Eibar a été active entre 1900 et 1921. Le modèle Imperial daterait de 1914.

A noter que la marque « Imperial » a aussi été déposée par les firmes espagnoles suivantes :

Gregorio Bolumburu et Toribio Zulaica (dépôt officiel n° 20552)

En annexe des photos de pistolets Imperial 1910 et 1914 en version "populaire". Le modèle 1914 est en effet identique au modèle gravé (il est vrai sans l’inscription sur la culasse).

GP et MD

Identification 3087

Il s’agit d’une fabrication “récente” (= arme de traite ou en tout cas d’export ?) d’un fusil à deux coups à percussion, avec des canons en faux damas, une "décoration sommaire" (on n’ose pas dire une gravure) sur les platines arrière, une boîte à amorces dans la crosse. L’inscription (en espagnol ou portugais?) sur les canons n’est pas lisible.

Les poinçons.

L’origine liégeoise ne fait pas de doute.

Perron : 1853 à nos jours

V sous astérisque : contremarque de 1877 à 1968

G sous astérisque : contremarque de 1877 à 1968

EL en lettres anglaises : épreuve provisoire de 1852 à nos jours

13.0 : calibre en mm

ELG dans un ovale : poinçon d'acceptation définitive entre 1846 et 1893

D sous couronne : contremarque d’un contrôleur ?

JD dans ovale : peut-être Jean Duchateau mais sans garantie aucune.

MD dans losange allongé : inconnu jusqu’à présent

Il s’agit d’une arme bon marché et de faible calibre, sans doute destinée à l’exportation, peut-être vers l’Amérique du Sud.

Identification 3092

It is a completely collapsible rifle with English stick, with opening to side key of Leclercq type gauges 12 mm of manufacturing of Liège of them. “The” rifle of poacher by excellence.

The weapon seems in good state, having preserved a good part of its marbling and bronzing of its barrel, octagonal first, then round.

One manufactured thousands of specimens of this kind of weapon, with one or two barrels (generally juxtaposed), in a multiplicity of gauges, especially in .410 or 12 mm like this specimen.

She is signed MEIZER-DUQUENNE LIEGE on the barrel.

One finds the punches usual of the proofhouse of Liège:

The peron (step) : punch of inspection of 1853 to our days

PV under lion: punch of test to the sharp (black) powder, used between on October 4th, 1898 and before February 26th, 1968

G under star: countermark of the controller enters on January 27th, 1877 and before February 26th, 1968.

10.4 are the gauge in mm (what corresponds to the 12 mm or .410)

EL in english letters: provisional test, use since December 21st, 1852

0 kg610 is the weight of the barrel.

The Greek letter "Lambda" is the yearly letter of 1954. Year of manufacture of your weapon.

ELG in a crowned oval is the punch of acceptance since July 11th, 1893 until before February 26th, 1968.

410.65 in the Greek letter Omega gives the nominal gauge and the length of the room, of use since June 30th, 1924.

232 is undoubtedly the serial number of the weapon.

The house MEIZER-DUQUENNE is not taken again in “Who's who arms manufacturer of Liège”, nor in the works of our late friend Guy Gadisseur on publicity in arms manufacture of Liège. One finds via Internet some weapons of this house, of which a rifle of great hunting of the Mauser type on the site littlegun.be, and other rifles Leclercq type.

Identification 3093

It is here about a revolver in 5 shots, not specified calibre, copies the model British Bull-Dog of Philip Webley & Son (see annexed document) by an unknown Belgian producer and with good reason:

On May 23rd, 1881, the firm P. Webley and Son of Birmingham (GB) had deposited in Belgium a trademark «THE BRITISH BULL DOG».

Anecdote: it would seem that the American President James A. Garfield (who will die from his wounds) is assassinated (7/2/1881) by one of these Belgian copies of British Bull-dog in .44.

His design was use as a basis in WEBLEY RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary).

He carries the punches of the proofhouse of Liège:

Spangled ELG in an oval: Applied Acceptance from 1846 till 1893.

R under star: pass of the inspector from 1877 till 1968.

Estimate of the date of manufacture, between 1877 and 1898.

The Belgian producer having left draws no, he will remain therefore anonymous!!

HPH

Identification 3094

Carabine de jardin de fabrication liégeoise, habituellement appelée Warnant, à culasse longue, canon octogonal et crosse à poignée pistolet en 9 mm Flobert. Arme très courante pendant la première moitié du XXe siècle, fabriquée dans plusieurs calibres, les plus courants étant le 6 et le 9 mm Flobert et le .410 (12 mm) à percussion centrale.

Les poinçons : FL 9 mm C sur le côté gauche du canon, indiquant le 9 mm Flobert (percussion annulaire, à balle ou plombs).

ELG dans ovale sous couronne : poinçon d’acceptation post 1893.

Perron : inspection en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

AL* : contremarque du contrôleur, en usage de 1877 à 1968

L'arme a donc été fabriquée entre 1893 et 1968

La marque AS couronnée pourrait donc appartenir à Simonis albert ou Spirlet Albert sans aucune certitude.

D'autant que la marque de Spirlet était souvent dans un losange !!

En ce qui concerne la marque JR, il existe bien un JR correspondant un J. Rosseel de Tilff mais comme il était actif vers 1948, cela nous semble peu vraisemblable (mais pas tout à fait exclu non plus).

8.4 est le diamètre du canon.

976 est sans doute le numéro de fabrication de cette arme qui a été produite à des milliers d’exemplaires par de nombreux fabricants.

Manque à gauche de la culasse le bouton permettant de l’ouvrir facilement.

Identification 3096

It is here about a revolver in 5 blows, calibre .450 (455), carrying the mark "American Settler" deposited by Lucien Clement on January 26th, 1899.

Lucien Clement, producer of weapon in Liege, street Maghin 60 then street Chéri 47 (the same addresses as Charles Clement).

I think that this weapon was rather intended for the market of the Africain colonies: Belgian Congo (American Settler = American colonist).

He carries the marks of the proofhouse of Liege or :

Spangled ELG in oval crowned: Applied Acceptance of from 1893.

B spangled: pass of the inspector from January 27th, 1877.

R (a little bigger than that of the inspector) crowned: mark of check on the rifled handguns from January 30th, 1894 till February 26th, 1968.

24: Number of the weapon, nevertheless it is rather about a number allowing to the filter to reconstruct the weapon.

Estimate of the date of manufacture, between 1899 and 1913 (the theoretical end of the black powder).

HPH

Identification 3097

It is here about a pocket revolver in 6 shots, calibre .320 (7,65 mm), of type Baby or Puppy.

In the absence of definite marking, it is impossible to identify the producer, this type of weapon was manufactured in several thousand copies by dozens producers.

Letters " EP « and " D " would be initials belonging to the producer (artisan or worker) having fabricated the parts where they appear.

He carries the mark of the proofhouse of Liege or :

Spangled ELG in oval crowned: Applied Acceptance of from 1893.

Spangled AT: pass of the inspector from January 27th, 1877.

R (a little bigger than that of the inspector) crowned: mark of check on the rifled handguns from January 30th, 1894 till February 26th, 1968.

37: Number of the weapon, nevertheless it is rather about a number allowing to the filter to reconstruct the weapon.

Estimate of the date of manufacture, between 1894 and 1913 (theoretical end of the black powder).

HPH

Identification 3098

Your revolver is a revolver of the Lefaucheux type says “open frame”, i.e. the top is not fixed at the part postpones weapon, only the low part of the carcass is maintained by a screw with the front part.

Owing to the fact that only a point of fixing maintained the barrel and its console with the remainder of the weapon, these small revolvers were rather fragile.

In the area of Liege hundreds of craftsmen manufactured these weapons per thousand for sale it in many countries.

Its ammunition is a cartridge “pinfire” which existed in gauge 5, 7, 9 and 12mm.

Until the invention of the cartridge with central percussion the ammunition with pin were extremely appreciated.

The calibre more the current is the 7mm, which is probably the case of yours.

This weapon carries only two punches of the proofhouse of Liege (Belgium) which one can define as follows:

Ø Spangled ELG in an oval: final acceptance, of use of 1846 to 1893.

Ø Letter (unreadable) spangled: countermark of controller post 1877.

Therefore, period of manufacture between 1877 and 1893.

The letters "HH" "JM" and "IF" on the metal skeleton are marks of sub contractor.

The manufacturer will remain anonymous because no marking is visible, reassure you that however was often the case on these weapons of poor quality.

Alain

Identification 3099

It is a shotgun juxtaposed of type Anson and Deeley of gauge 16, with a pistol stick with cheek and a forearm with push rod, with key of opening top rising.

Markings

Cockerill steel: type of steel used to manufacture the guns.

16-65 in an omega: gauge 16 and length of the room 65 mm.

ELG on asterisk in a crowned oval: test enters on July 11th, 1893 and 1968

Peron (step): inspection since 1853.

EL in English letters : Provisional test since 1852.

Choke 16.4

Z under star: countermark of the controller of use of 1877 to 1968.

Greek letter delta (without warranty): yearly letter of 1958, which could thus be the year of the manufacturing of this rifle.

I or JC could be the brand of the manufacturer of barrels Joseph Cap.

JF: perhaps the initial ones of Janssen Frères or the Workshops J. Falla.

Lion on PV: test with the smoke-free powder enters on October 4th, 1898 and on February 26th, 1968.

1kg217 is the weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders (since June 30th, 1924 until our days).

N in one ecu is the Czech punch for the individual test of the unrifled bore weapons charged by the breech with the smoke-free powder.

The presence of the Czech punch seems to be the proof that the weapon was represented with the test in this country.

Identification 3100

Is it about a long rifle of gauge 10 (canardière?) juxtaposed with external hammers, stick half-pistol and single forearm, marked Imperial Belgium Damascus on the tape between the barrels and Janssen Arms C° on the lock.

Markings

EL in English letters: provisional test since 1852.

Peron: inspection since 1853.

V under star: countermark of the controller since 1877.

10 C in vertical rhombus: gauge weapon.

19.0: gauge in mm: it is a little strange insofar as a gauge 10 fact “normally” 19.7 mm; but as one can also read registration “choke bored”, this undoubtedly explains that.

ELG in oval under crown: acceptance between 1893 and 1968.

36976 undoubtedly the number of the weapon.

The weapon is obviously of quality poor and the barrels are certainly not in Damas, notwithstanding commercial registration on the tape. This commercial registration is allotted either to Henri Pieper (of which rifles were sold with this registration in the United States via T. Barker), or in Janssen Fils and C°, which is more probable in the case which occupies to us being given the presence of Janssen Arms C° on the turntable.

It is thus undoubtedly about one of these thousands - even hundreds of thousands - rifles of Liège of less quality exported towards the United States before the 1e World war, sold at the time between 10 and 20 dollars, while a rifle of quality was sold minimum 100 dollars.

Identification 3101

It is about a single-barrelled gun of gauge 4 with central percussion, closing by key on the trigger guard and with external dog on a back turntable. The gun seems to be in Damas.

Markings

V under star: countermark of the controller since 1877.

EL in English letters: provisional test since 1952.

Peron (Little step): inspection since 1853.

ELG in oval under crown: acceptance between 1893 and 1968

4 C in a vertical rhombus: gauge weapon (either 26 mm).

AP under star: countermark of the controller since 1877.

JJ: not identified. Admittedly, the Jacquemart Workshops signed JJ, but their working life (end of the Forties) does not correspond – in our opinion – to that of the weapon.

GM (?) under crown: not identified.

Choke 216/232: choké barrel: cal in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth. In use from February 1910 to June 1924.

The weapon was thus probably manufactured between 1910 and 1924. It was undoubtedly intended for hunting for waterfowl.

Identification 3103

Pistolet de tir à un coup, canon basculant, fermeture Tranter, finition noire, crosse noyer quadrillée, bascule jaspée avec hausse et guidon suisses, portant les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de LIEGE, à savoir :

ELG sur étoile dans un ovale couronné : acceptation définitive post 1893.

C étoilé : contremarque du contrôleur post 1877.

Perron : poinçon de l’inspecteur du Banc d’Epreuves en usage de 1853 à nos jours.

R couronné : canon rayé, en usage de 1894 à 1968.

L’arme porte également la marque .22L qui signifie qu’elle est de calibre 22 long (6 mm) annulaire.

RW : vraisemblablement les initiales de l’artisan/ouvrier ayant fabriqué la carcasse

Belgique : sans commentaire

Le fabricant : Meyers-Coune Henri, armurier à Cheratte, il dépose en 1913 deux brevets pour un système de pistolet par déflagration des gaz, combinant le recul en trois endroits et à mouvement de détente inverse ainsi qu’un nouveau dispositif applicable aux armes automatiques. En annexe extrait d’un catalogue de 1909 de la manufacture d’armes L. Ancion-Marx (LAM) ou la même arme figure sous la référence 23TH

HPH

Identification 3111

Skeletal Leclercq stick

It is about a collapsible rifle standard Leclercq with skeletal stick gauges .38 of them Remington of manufacturing inhabitant of Liège.

Markings

Perron (little step) : inspection since 1853

C under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

38 Remington: the ammunition used

326896 undoubtedly the number of manufacturing of the weapon.

There are certainly other punches under the barrel but they were not photographed. In theory, it is enough to push the button close to the screw to make fold the barrel completely (and to see the punches well).

This kind of Leclercq rifle was abundantly produced in Liege, in a large number of gauges. More rarely with such a skeletal stick. The polished and partially gilded completion is certainly not origin.

The .38 Remington (approximately 9.6 mm) with annular percussion is not current in Belgium; it was extremely widespread between 1870 and 1900 in the United States, so much for revolvers than of the rifles and the production ceased before 1940. The cartridge existed in version shorts, length, extra-long and with leads.

It would be necessary to measure the diameter of the barrel to the chamber because it seems higher to me than 9.6 mm, but it is perhaps only one impression…

It is quasi certainly about a production for export towards the United States.

Identification 3120

Il s’agit d’un intéressant revolver à bascule de type bossu (chien intérieur) à cinq coups de calibre non précisé combinant deux, voire trois brevets de Pierre Wertz, fabricant d’armes à Chefneux-Barchon. Il a été inscrit au Banc d’Epreuves en 1913 et 1914. Il a déposé sept brevets entre 1902 et 1910.

Les marquages

Sur le barillet : ELG dans ovale couronné : acceptation entre 1893 et 1968

G étoilé : contremarque du contrôleur depuis 1877

6 : ?

Sur le corps : R couronné : canon rayé entre 1894 et 1968

G étoilé : contremarque du contrôleur

Lion sur PV : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée entre 1898 et 1968.

75 ?

La clé latérale sur le côté gauche est en fait la clé d’ouverture du revolver. Le système a fait l’objet du brevet 210.504 du 5 septembre 1908. Il concerne une "fermeture pour armes basculantes par le prolongement du canon, venant se caler dans le corps de l’arme, au moyen d’un crochet et d’une clef automatique".

Le fond de la crosse peut glisser et ainsi actionner la sûreté ! On peut y lire la lettre S pour Sûreté (apparente lorsque l’arme est en sûreté) les lettres PW Bté dans un ovale, PW pour Pierre Wertz bien sûr. Aussi les lettres NN ( ?) et ce qu’on pourrait prendre pour deux L croisés dans un cercle incomplet ( ?).

Le système de sûreté porte le numéro 208.178 du 11 mai 1909. Il a été perfectionné par le brevet 217.562 du 2 juillet 1909. Il faudrait démonter les plaquettes pour voir la différence et déterminer ainsi le brevet utilisé.

GP avec l’aide efficace de MAX

Identification 3121

It is about a traditional rifle juxtaposed system Anson of gauge 12 with triple locking, with English stick and forearm with pump. One can read on the upper tape Lepage à Liege Acier Cockerill (type of steel used).

Markings

Peron (little step): inspection since 1853

EL: provisional test since 1852

Above choke: CAB or ACB or BCA: undoubtedly the mark of the gunner not identified. One could have thought of Baltus, but its logo is different: ACB in a circle.

Choke 18.1: choke barrel, indicating the gauge to 22 cm of the breech, of use between 1924 and 1968.

M under star and AD under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

Letter PV on lion: test with the smoke-free powder between 1898 and 1968.

3468: undoubtedly the serial number of the weapon.

S: not identified

12 C in a vertical rhombus: gauge weapon between 1898 and 1924

P 1k 561.4: weight of the barrel (between 1892 and 1924).

D = 65 mm over 20.6: length of the room and diameter of the barrel.

There is still a marking of two letters of which has, the whole under star: undoubtedly a countermark of controller.

There is also a marking resembling C lying: not identified. One thinks of a yearly letter, but one does not see which…

The Manufactory Lepage (street of Augustins 26 in Liege) was registered with the proofhouse of Liege between 1919 and 1961.

Identification 3124

It is about a traditional shotgun of gauge 16, with juxtaposed barrels and external hammers, English stick and forearm with push rod.

Markings

Peron: inspection since 1853

EL: provisional test since 1852

ELG in a crowned oval: acceptance between 1893 and 1968

16 C in a vertical rhombus: gauge weapon, of use between 1898 and 1924

P. 1 K 306.8: weight of the barrel (between 1892 and 1924)

U spangled and spangled AD: countermarks of controllers since 1877

CHOKE 16.2 over 16.8: in use between 1910 and 1924

D=65 mm over 18.7: length of the room and diameter of the gun

ACC in a round: not identified

LD in a rhombus: maybe according to a source: Jeanne Demarteau, street of the Minors, 69, with Herstal, registered with the proofhouse in 1947-1948; maybe, more probably, Dumoulin Lambert, street Bassenge, 2, in Liege, registered with the proofhouse of 1920 to 1965.

L 5: not identified

We did not see a yearly letter, so that by deduction, one can date the production between 1910 (choke) and 1921 (yearly letters having begun in 1922). And thus probably in Lambert Dumoulin, the beginning of its career.

Identification 3125

Il s’agit d’un fusil de chasse juxtaposé système Anson de calibre 12 à quadruple verrouillage, à crosse-pistolet à joue et longuesse à poussoir marqué Janssen & Fils et C°.

Les marquages

Perron : inspection depuis 1853

EL : épreuve provisoire depuis 1952

Lion sur PV : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée entre 1989 et 1968

M sous étoile : contremarque du contrôleur depuis 1877

ELG dans ovale couronné : acceptation entre 1893 et 1968

12-70 dans oméga couché : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille : depuis 1924 à nos jours

1kg435 : poids du canon depuis 1924

V : peut-être la lettre annale pour 1943

Choke 18.2 : calibre à 22 cm de la culasse entre 1924 et 1968

GK 16 : non identifié

JF&C : Janssen Fils et Cie

Janssen Fils & Cie, commerçants en armes, rue Lambert Le Bègue, 4 à Liège, maison fondée en 1867, inscrits au BE entre 1895 et 1937. La société a été mise en liquidation le 1er janvier 1935. Lui a succédé la S.A. Janssen Fils & C°, rue Saint-Gilles, 87 à Liège. Elle a été inscrite au BE entre 1937 et 1951.

Identification 3126

It is about traditional “a rifle of garden” standard Warnant long breech gauges 7 mm Flobert (annular percussion), with squared English stick with the handle and on part of the wood, with octagonal barrel, trigger guard with volutes, with the mention Dresse-Laloux & C° Liege and the mark with the bee in a circle with the letters D and L on the wings.

Markings

Peron (little step) : inspection since 1853

ELG in oval under crown: acceptance between 1893 and 1968. These two punches are of application to the rifles of living room with blasting powder.

R crowned: rifled bore between 1894 and 1968; question with the owner: is the gun actually striped?

A (?) under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

FL 7 M: gauge 7 mm Flobert with annular percussion

FH: not identified

Dresse-Laloux deposited the mark with the bee on January 28th, 1881. It was registered with the proofhouse of 1867 to 1908. In 1908, the activity was taken over by the Establishments Georges Laloux.

Jean Warnant (1845-1913) deposited not less than 36 patents of which several being able to refer to the rifle in question, between 1868 and 1873.

This kind of rifle was produced to thousands of specimens in various gauges with annular and central percussion.

The cartridge 7 mm Flobert is not marketed any more since decades, one of the last known manufacturing going back to 1925.

Note of Littlegun

If you like nice belgian weapons, see my books : http://www.littlegun.be/livres/a%20a%20livre%20alain%20general.htm

Alain Daubresse (Author of these books)

Identification 3128

Il s’agit d’un très beau fusil liégeois juxtaposé top break, sans doute à platines, gravé par Léonard Smeets, fabriqué pour l’armurier parisien Charles Maugein. Crosse anglaise en noyer bien veiné. Longuesse (avant bois) à poussoir.

Les marquages

Perron : inspection depuis 1853

ELG dans une ovale sous couronne : acceptation entre 1893 et 1968

V et G sous étoile : contremarques de contrôleurs depuis 1877

Lion sur PV : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée entre 1898 et 1968

12-70 dans un oméga couché : calibre nominal et longueur de la douille (depuis 1924)

Lettre grecque thèta : lettre annale pour 1953

602 : numéro de l’arme

Trademark et un dessin comprenant une espèce de cèdre (?) sur une boule (?) et un cône et 60884 et 60885 : les numéros de fabrication des canons par un canonnier non identifié jusqu’à présent ; il est bien répertorié mais sans aucune précision, sinon la mention Whithworth. On lira aussi avec intérêt le lien suivant : https://shotguncollector.com/2017/06/21/the-beginning-of-the-steel-age/ . On y remarquera d’une part les armoiries de Sir Joseph Whitworth qui ont un lien de parenté avec le dessin de ces canons, d’autre part les canons d’un fusil d’Auguste Lebeau, avec aussi un logo du même style au milieu de la mention trademark…. Curieux, vous avez dit bizarre…

1kg479 : poids du canon (depuis 1924)

18.4 choke 18.3 : diamètre du canon et du choke

VC couronné : non identifié (ce sont certes les initiales de Victor Collette, mais à ma connaissance, il n’a produit que des pistolets).

Sur la bande : Made of Sir Joseph Whithworth’s Fluid Pressed Steel made for Charles Maugein Paris. Type d’acier produit sous pression breveté en 1866 par Sir Joseph Whitworth (http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Joseph_Whitworth et aussi http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/what-is-fluid-steel-and-is-it-stronger-than-damascus-steel-13767 et enfin http://firearmshistory.blogspot.be/2014/11/metals-used-in-firearms-xv.html ).

On trouve régulièrement cette mention sur des armes généralement de haute qualité.

La gravure a été réalisée par Léonard Smeets, graveur et incrusteur de SM le Roi (des Belges) (brevet accordé en 1952) (voir le site littlegun.be dans la partie consacrée aux graveurs).

Selon le « Qui est qui » de l’armurerie française, Charles Mangein était armurier à Paris entre 1934 et 1939. Toutefois, la toile nous apprend qu’il était encore en activité dans les années 1950-60, ce qui correspond bien à la date de fabrication de ce beau fusil, à savoir 1953. La plupart des fusils signés Charles Mangein vus sur la toile sont de fabrication liégeoise.

Identification 3129

Voici un juxtaposé en calibre .577 express de fabrication liégeoise « fini » par la maison parisienne Gastinne Renette. Chiens extérieurs, platines arrière, crosse pistolet à joue, à triple fermeture. Fermeture à clé sur le pontet.

Les marquages

Perron : inspection depuis 1853

ELG dans ovale sous couronne : acceptation entre 1893 et 1968.

R couronné : canon rayé entre 1894 et 1968

EL : acceptation provisoire depuis 1852

S sous étoile : contremarque du contrôleur depuis 1877

LR sous couronne : non identifié. On pourrait penser à L. Rotsaert mais 1° ses initiales sont dans un cercle aplati ; 2° on mentionne la date de 1948 pour ce fabricant, ce qui ne correspond pas du tout à la période de fabrication de l’arme en question.

On pourrait aussi penser à Rouma Lambert qui a été inscrit au Banc d’Epreuves de 1877 à 1909 et a déposé cinq brevets. Les dates correspondent mais c'est sans garantie aucune.

5647 est le numéro de l’arme.

Cal. .577 express : calibre de l’arme, un calibre courant à poudre noire pour le gros gibier avant 1914.

14.5 : le calibre de l’arme en mm

L’absence de lettre annale nous fait pencher pour une production entre 1893 et 1921, davantage même pour la fourchette basse, étant donné qu’il s’agit d’une arme à poudre noire (absence du marquage du lion sur PV).

La maison parisienne Gastinne-Renette, hélas disparue, fut un beau fleuron de l’armurerie française pendant presque deux siècles. Comme beaucoup d’autres grandes maisons françaises, elle s’est régulièrement approvisionnée à Liège, quitte, pour des raisons commerciales, à faire apposer des mentions comme celle-ci : « Fini par Gastinne-Renette à Paris ».

Identification 3130

Here one juxtaposed of type Anson to rifled bores carrying the punch of Auguste Francotte. Stick half-pistol, forearm with pedal-trough. Scope.

Markings

Peron: inspection since 1853

ELG in oval under crown: acceptance between 1893 and 1968.

Lion on PV: test with the smoke-free powder between 1898 and 1968.

R under crown: rifled bore between 1894 and 1968.

b. blindée (ball armor-plated): rifled bores of gauge higher than .22 for lined balls, between 1910 and 1968.

EL: provisional test since 1852.

P and W under star: countermarks of controllers since 1877.

80705: number of the weapon?

AF under crown in oval: one of the marks of the house Auguste Francotte.

There is also a species of thèta under star: it resembles much the mark of the Duarme Establishments in Vottem, but without guarantee none.

87: not identified.

One also sees on the left gun an inscription extremely unobtrusive and in any case incomplete: SM Le Roi (His Majesty The King). Is there undoubtedly the name of the arms manufacturer on the right barrel, hidden by the mounting of the scope?

I also believe to recognize below right barrel one of the logos of the company of the gunner Jean Cap.

A little surprised not to see mention of the gauge, unless they are 8.7?

The Francotte dynasty was active in Liege during nearly two centuries (1810-1991).

Identification 3131

Here a very beautiful shotgun juxtaposed to external hammers, Damas barrels, English stick, forearm with full pedal, key top break, abundantly engraved but, signed Galand in Paris, in its box with some accessories (screwdriver, rod and brushes), tested in Liege.

Markings

On the table: Barrel of Galand patented manufacturer;

Peron: inspection since 1853

ELG in oval: acceptance before July 1893

EL: provisional test since 1852

S and Z under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

GV in a circle: could be the manufacturer of barrels Gosme & Van Heer

17.4: gauge in mm, that is to say a gauge 16

CHOKE: chokés unrifled bores, between on January 30th, 1897 and on October 4th, 1898.

WD: not identified

In theory, this rifle thus goes back to before July 1893 (ELG in oval), and even of before June 11th, 1892, date on which one started to indicate the weight of the barrels. But the presence - twice - mention “choke” is difficult to explain since in theory, according to the literature that I have, it does not appear (thus without mention of figures) only between on January 30th, 1897 and on October 4th, 1898. Mystery and "swell of gum…."

The box seems to me quite young for a manufacturing of before 1893. But that wants nothing to say because the Galand house existed until 1942.

Charles-François Galand (1832-1900) is well-known, especially for his revolvers, but also for his shotguns of great quality, like the specimen examined here. He started his activities in 1870 and opened branches, in Liege and London. He had also workshops decentralized in Liege (of 1870 to 1890 according to one of the consulted sources) and in Birmingham. Examined rifle is thus a product of the workshop of Liège. His oldest son Rene took again the company with the death of his father until 1942.

Consulted sources: Der Neue Stockel, Eugene Heer;

Onomastic lexicon of the arquebusiers… Jean-Claude Mournetas.

Identification 3132

Carabine à crosse demi-pistolet en cours de restauration.

Les marquages

.22 L : .22 Long

R couronné : canon rayé entre 1894 et 1968.

M sous étoile : contremarque du contrôleur depuis 1877

Lion sur PV : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée entre 1898 et 1968.

Perron : inspection depuis 1853

ELG dans un ovale couronné : acceptation entre 1893 et 1968.

AJD Patent Automatic’s Works ( ?) Herstal Belgium : AJD pour Antoine Joseph Defourny.

Voila ci-dessous le document technique en haute résolution.

Antoine Joseph Defourny a été actif sous différents noms de sociétés et à différents endroits dans la région liégeoise de 1900 à 1967.

La marque A.J.D Patent a été déposée par Antoine-Joseph Defourny, 31, rue Nicolas Defrêcheux à Herstal, le 12 mai 1931.

Je trouve trace de cette carabine dans un courrier daté du 9 février 1949, (envoyé par Defourny à un armurier hutois). Rien dans les catalogues ou petits papiers divers.

GP avec l’aide de HPH et Alantrigger

Identification 3136

Here a traditional shotgun juxtaposed system Anson with triple closing, English stick and forearm with push rod. It comes from Manufacture liégeoise d’Armes à feu.

Markings

Peron: inspection since 1853

EL: provisional test since 1852

AD under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

12C in a vertical rhombus: gauge weapon between 1898 and 1924

PV lion on statement: test with the smoke-free powder between 1898 and 1968

D=70 over 20.6: length of the room in mm and diameter in mm after the optional test with the smoke-free powder between 1892 and 1924

ELG in crowned oval: acceptance between 1893 and 1968

P.1K518.5: weight of the barrel, between 1892 and 1924

Lion on ECM3: optional test with smoke-free powder EC. between 1891 and 1968

Acier universel et Cockerill (with cock): type of steel used

17.6 over 18.4 and 17.5 over 18.3: chokes of the barrels, between 1910 and 1924.

J under star (maybe) : either countermark of a controller, or unknown.

ML on star in oval under crown: mark MLAF deposited in 1890

One can also read on the tape "Manufacture Liégeoise d’Armes à feu, Liège, fondée en 1866. Grand Prix Paris 1910" (Manufacture of Liège of Firearms, Liege, founded in 1866. Grand Prix Paris 1910).

This manufacture from Firearms, street of Vertbois, 52-54 in Liege was registered with the proofhouse between 1866 and 1929. It had also a barrels factory with Nessonvaux. It deposited 26 Belgian patents between 1866 and 1898. It also deposited 27 trademarks between 1889 and 1924.

Being given the absence (at first sight in any case) of yearly letter, one can go back the manufacturing between the end to 1910 and 1921.

Identification 3140

A pinfire revolver of house JB Hanquet in Liege.

One finds the traditional ELG on star in an oval, acceptance between 1846 and 1893.

As well as the letter N under crown which is the mark of the controller: valid from December 30th, 1853 to January 26th, 1877.

There is also what seems to be a V between two rooms of the cylinder, but the photograph is not sufficiently clear.

Company J.B. Hanquet was registered with the proofhouse of Liege between 1796 and 1872, which corresponds perfectly to the period of manufacturing of this revolver, around the years 1860.

It in any case deserves certainly a cleaning to remove rust!

Identification 3149

Here a shotgun juxtaposed to external hammers, key of opening enters the hammers, barrels out of Cockerill steel, of Belgian manufacturing, marked on locks A Franchini in Montevideo (Uruguay), the salesman of rifle.

On the tape between the barrels an inscription is reproduced which can result in “special for smoke-free powders”. The manufacturing is current. Cheap engravings of a dog and rabbits on locks.

Markings

Peron: inspection since 1853

EL: provisional test since 1852

16 C in rhombus: gauge weapon, between 1898 and 1924

ELG in oval under crown: acceptance between 1893 and 1968

CHOKE 16.5 over 16.9: choke of the barrels, marking used between 1910 and 1924.

P 1K.371.5: weight of the barrels, between 1892 and 1924

PV Lion on statement: test with the powder lives between 1898 and 1968.

A and AV under star: countermark controllers since 1877.

AG could be the manufacturer of guns A. Garot with Herstal.

I wonder about what I had with the start got for a Greek letter (a species of delta lying). The yearly letters in Greek alphabet were used between 1948 and 1961, which does not correspond to other markings. By deduction, I arrive at a manufacturing between 1910 and 1924.

I do not identify the letter surmounted of a star beside the EL under mention CHOKE 16.5 over 16.9.

Identification 3151

Here a revolver Abadie system like marked left side of the weapon of manufacturing of Liège. It should be a question of a model 1878 civilian.

Markings

ELG in an oval: acceptance between 1846 and 1893

X under star: countermark of the controller since 1877.

Number 4010 under the barrel, and 942 on the left side of the barrel: no explanation…

Patented Abadie system: one will consult with interest the link according to appear on the site: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20s/a%20soleil%20fr.htm

who will allow to know some a little more about the saga of certain Abadie Ismaël Issac, civil engineer Carlier street 1 in Liege, which deposited four patents between 1874 and 1877; it sold them in Gustave Prévost which resells them in Léonard Soleil who passes them to her son Leon who yields them to his son Louis.

One will consult also the n° 387 of the "Gazette des armes" of the article of Henri Vuillemin on the revolvers of the Abadie system and his many versions.

The main feature of the Abadie system lies in the door of loading which, once lowered, disconnects the hammer, so that while supporting on the trigger, the cylinder turns without the hammer not moving, which allows the fast and sure ejection casings by the rod of ejection.

This system evolved and was taken again by other manufacturers.

To the reading of all this literature and what one can find on the web, I concluded that it is a civil specimen the model 1878 (the stem attached inside the left plate in any case refer to the patent of February 11th, 1877). It would be also interesting to know if the back part of the trigger guard is squared so as to facilitate the catch of it to lower the aforementioned trigger guard (see the article of Gazette des Armes).

I am not explained the absence of marking of a manufacturer and L. Soleil in particular. There are perhaps (undoubtedly) marks under the plates of grips.

Identification 3153

Here a very traditional collapsible rifle Leclercq system gauges of them 12 mm with opening by side lever of Belgian manufacturing.

Markings

Peron: inspection since 1853

R under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

EL: provisional test since 1852

ELG in oval under crown: acceptance between 1893 and 1968

12 m C in rhombus: gauge weapon between 1898 and 1924

O under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

10.4: diameter of the barrel (?) in mm since 1889.

One sees also F. PURNEL engraved in a rather clumsy way as well as other illegible mentions.

We cannot alas consolidate the owner in his assertion according to which it would be about a weapon manufactured by an ex-employee of the English company Purdey.

Hundreds of thousands of these weapons were manufactured in a multiplicity of gauges during nearly one century in Liege.

This mark “Purnel” is probably the name of a former owner or that of the dealer, it was an usual practice at the time.

Alain Daubresse (Webmaster)

Identification 3155

Voici un fusil de chasse monocanon à chien extérieur de belle facture, bascule jaspée, crosse anglaise quadrillée, longuesse à poussoir, canon d’abord octogonal puis rond, marqué Galand, de fabrication liégeoise.

Les marquages

Perron : inspection depuis 1853

EL : épreuve provisoire depuis 1852

24 sur C dans un losange : calibre de l’arme entre 1898 et 1924

Lion sur PV : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée entre 1898 et 1968

T sur PV : épreuve avec une poudre particulière qui ne nous est pas connue

X sous étoile : contremarque du contrôleur depuis 1877

S sous étoile : contremarque du contrôleur depuis 1877

ELG dans ovale couronné : acceptation entre 1893 et 1968

19616 sur toutes les pièces : le numéro de l’arme

CHOKE 14.0 sur 14.7 : canon choké entre 1910 et 1924

14.6 : je ne m’explique pas la présence de ce marquage….

P OK877.6 : poids du canon entre 1892 et 1924

Galand fabricant breveté : Charles-François Galand (1832-1900) est bien connu, surtout pour ses revolvers, mais aussi pour ses fusils de chasse de bonne qualité, comme l’exemplaire examiné ici. Il a entamé ses activités en 1870 et a ouvert des succursales, à Liège et à Londres. Il avait aussi des ateliers de fabrication décentralisés à Liège (de 1870 à 1890 selon une des sources consultées) et à Birmingham. Le fusil examiné est donc un produit de l’atelier liégeois. Son fils aîné René a repris la société au décès de son père jusqu’en 1942.

Selon le marquage du choke, le fusil aurait donc été fabriqué entre 1910 et 1924, ce qui contredit certes la source faisant état de fabrications à Liège jusqu’en 1890…

L’arme correspond bien au type 16 « modèle riche » figurant dans un ancien catalogue de la maison Galand, datant environ de 1910. Seule petite réserve : le dessin est trop petit pour bien voir l’extracteur qui semble être manuel sur le fusil présenté, puisqu’il y a des stries pour faciliter la préhension.

Sources consultées : Der Neue Stockel, Eugène Heer ;

Lexique onomastique des arquebusiers … Jean-Claude Mournetas.

Merci à HPH pour le document

Identification 3156

Here a shotgun juxtaposed to external hammers of Belgian manufacturing sold by house H.G. Cords of Bremerhaven. Key of the Lefauxcheux type. Very particular system of long strikers attached to the hammers. Behind the trigger guard a decoration in typical horn of the Germanic weapons. Barrels in Damas or more probably false Damas.

Markings

Peron: inspection since 1853

ELG in oval: acceptance between 1846 and 1893

17.0: undoubtedly the internal diameter of the barrel, which corresponds about to a gauge 16 (in theory 16.8)

Crowned JB: perhaps the initial ones of the gunner or the manufacturer.

M crowned: perhaps initial of gunner or manufacturer.

Funny of L which resembles extremely the L of provisional punch EL of test since 1852. It would be said that the punch was badly struck, cf also the M crowned.

House H.G. Cords of Bremerhaven was activates between 1853 and 1920. Most weapons sold by this firm and met on the web are of origin of Liège.

The very particular system of long strikers attached to the hammers was not identified until now. It makes a little think of the Albini-Braendlin system, but by far…

More probable, but not completely some either, are patent 46934 deposited by P. Bernard in December 1878 (see drawing joint) and following 47143 (January 1879) and 48654 of July 1878.

We do not have alas an information relating to this P. Bernard in Saint-Gilles Liege.

Thank you with MAX for transmitted research and documents.

Identification 3158

An interesting rifle-revolver with percussion, calibres and dimensions not communicated, more than probably work of Charles Charlier of Wandre like say the signature.

Along the barrel on the left is a system of depression of the balls in the cylinder.

There is only one punch, visible and located in any case, ELG in an oval, is acceptance between 1846 and 1893.

According to the drawings of the patents in our possession, the weapon could concern patent 5499 of January 30th, 1858, itself an improvement of patent 5285 of the December 1st, 1857 bearing on a system of armament by the trigger. But without having the weapon in the hands, it is difficult to come to a conclusion about the use and the function of the parts located under the barrel.

We recognize humbly that we do not see the relationship with a system of armament by the trigger…. That resembles rather a system of assembly and fixing of the barrel to the frame which allows disassembling for the cleaning of the parts after the shooting. There is thus no certainty.

Charles Charlier, arms manufacturer with Wandre, deposited eleven patents between 1847 and 1867 and two others with other arms manufacturers (Decortis and Demeuse).

Identification 3161

Here an apparently traditional semi-automatic rifle FN in .22 Long Riffles of which nearly a half-million were produced since 1914 by the Fabrique Nationale of Herstal. Apparently because, contrary by the large majority of its colleagues, it is not dismountable!

She was most probably manufactured for the Federal Republic of Germany where the dismountable long weapons in two or several parts without tool are not authorized. The loading of the tube charger is done by the means of an opening on the right side of the stock. With origin, in 1914, this opening was located in the handle, with height of the inch.

Markings.

M under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

PV surmounted of a stylised lion: test with the smoke-free powder between 1898 and 1968

R crowned: rifled bore between 1894 and 1968

ELG in crowned oval: test between 1893 and 1968

22 long riffle smokeless: calibre.

F 49479: serial number of the weapon, according to the sources available (http://proofhouse.com/browning/index.html) during the year 1959. The significance of the letter F could not be given until now.

Silesia: quasi certainly the German house of importation.

Until now, we did not find trace of this not-dismountable semi-automatic rifle on Internet, but two sources, one German, and the other of Liège extremely related to the Fabrique Nationale, assure us the manufacturing “in the Sixties of the previous century” of this rifle “especially” for the Federal Republic of Germany where the legislation prohibited the long weapons being dismounted into two or several parts without tool.

Thanks with DZ and CG.

Identification 3163

Here a shotgun to two juxtaposed barrels, external hammers, key enters the hammers, signed A. Janson patented in Liege on the tape. The forearm is not origin.

Markings

EL: provisional test since 1852

Peron: inspection since 1853

12C in vertical rhombus: gauge weapon between 1898 and 1924

V under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

ELG in oval under crown: acceptance between 1893 and 1968.

AF under crown: punch of the house Auguste Francotte, the manufacturer of rifle

Choke 17.6 over 18.0: that means that the barrels are chokes. In use between 1910 and 1924.

JB on 7: not identified.

41269: undoubtedly the number of the weapon.

Signed on tape A. Janson Patented in Liege. This Mister indeed deposited patent 033553 in 1873 bearing on a system of closing to the weapons undertaking by the breech, but it corresponds of nothing to the weapon in question like you can see on the drawing joint. One can thus suppose that the weapon was actually manufactured by the Francotte house as a subcontractor of Auguste Janson who put his name on the tape, by recalling that it - also - had deposited a patent “in illo tempore”. We do not have the dates of activities of this Janson house.

According to the punches, one can conclude that the weapon was manufactured between 1910 and 1924.

Identification 3164

Here a traditional revolver with central percussion, six shots of gauge not communicated, undoubtedly .380. Only characteristic: screw-swell bored which replaces the traditional screw maintaining the barrel with the frame. The almost round bead also leaves the ordinary one.

Markings

ELG in oval: acceptance of 1846 to 1893.

Q under star: undoubtedly the countermark of a controller since 1877.

The absence of the "peron" will be noted.

3 on the barrel and the frame: undoubtedly a number of the workshop of the founder.

There are also the initial ones on the framework of the handle, LP or R but they are not identified.

The initial M.J struck the door are most probably that of the manufacturer of which we think that it could be a question of JAMAR, Michel, arms manufacturer in Liege, boulevard of Avroy, 16 then street Saint Jean, 26.

From 1888 to 1892, he deposits seven patents for inventions and in particular for revolvers and a safety applicable to several species of firearms such as revolvers with hammers, revolvers hammerless and with various kinds of rifles. None the patents of which we have the texts corresponds to this revolver of most traditional whose manufacturing is in any case former to July 11th, 1893 (ELG in an oval WITHOUT crown, and absence of the R crowned for the rifled bores introduced on January 30th, 1894).

Thank you with HPH and GG (†)

Identification 3165

Voici une jolie carabine à percussion annulaire de calibre 6 mm bien dans le style des armes de salon de la deuxième moitié du XIXe siècle. Belle crosse anglaise sculptée, pontet à volutes. Elle est marquée Rissack breveté.

Les marquages

FG : initiales non répertoriées

EL : épreuve provisoire depuis 1852

5.4 : le diamètre, donc pour une cartouche de 6 mm à percussion annulaire

Deux poinçons non identifiés

231 Rissack breveté

Selon toute vraisemblance, il s’agit d’une arme relevant du brevet 020253 du 5 octobre 1866 déposé par Jean-Jacques Rissack. Cet armurier prolifique a déposé plus de vingt brevets entre 1857 et 1869.

A signaler aussi l’article de Dirk Ziesing paru dans le bulletin 130 de juin 2015 des Amis du Musée d’Armes de Liège.

GP avec l’aide efficace et appréciée de HPH.

Identification 3168

Cette arme est un petit revolver à percussion centrale et carcasse fermée de type “PUPPY”. (Puppy = petit chien, par contradiction avec le revolver “Bulll dog” qui est plus gros).

Ce type d'arme, en fait, était fabriqué plus spécialement pour les femmes, avec une petite taille et une pochette genre porte monnaie en cuir !

Le chien est rebondissant.

Le barillet lisse est à six chambres de calibre .320 (probablement!)

Le canon rond est rayé. Il porte un guidon en demi-lune.

Les plaquettes semblent être en bakélite ou en Gutta-percha (à vérifier).

La détente est repliable dans certain modèle, protégé par une garde de détente dans d'autres ce qui est le cas de celui-ci.

Une baguette est placée sous le canon et peut-être manœuvrée sans la détacher.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, soit :

ELG* dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive, en usage de 1846 à 1893.

X* : contremarques des inspecteurs, en usage de 1877 à 1893.

18 : numérotations de nature inconnue ?

Marques

Le fabricant liégeois, comme souvent, n’a laissé aucune marque permettant de l’identifier.

A.D.

Identification 3169

Here a rifle juxtaposed of very beautiful manufacturing, signed A. Forgeron in Liege. Engraving is of Léonard Smeets.

Markings

Steel Arquebusier CAPE JF: type of steel of the barrels manufactured by Jean Falla who had taken again processes of Henri Joseph Cap.

12-70 in an omega lying: gauge and length of the room since 1924

Lion on PV: test with the smoke-free powder since 1898

M and V under star: countermarks of the controllers since 1877

1kg.226: weight of the barrel, since 1924

EL: provisional test since 1852

X: undoubtedly the yearly letter of 1945

Choke 18.4,18.5: chokes barrels, since 1924

39746: serial number of the weapon

Blacksmith typing on an anvil: registered trademark by Alphonse Forgeron in 1902.

Alphonse Forgeron, street Adolphe Borgnet, 5 then 4, in Liege, were registered with the proofhouse of Liege of 1880 to 1932. It deposited two patents in Belgium, one in 1902 for a safety intended for rifles hammerless, the other in 1910 for a shotgun to single trigger.

The mark (firm) Blacksmith was yielded to Joseph Boulanger (Proofhouse 1932/1940) initially street Adolphe Borgnet, 5, then street St-Léonard, 492/494 (Proofhouse 1940/1962) always in Liege. If X is indeed the yearly letter of 1945, Joseph Boulanger is then the manufacturer of rifle presented.

In 1963, Jacques Pirotte and then Pirotte J. & Son (E.) street the St. Lawrence, 45 in Liege takes over the activity of the firm Boulanger by preserving the mark “BLACKSMITH”.

As regards Steel Arquebusier, one does not find of it the trace (until now) in publicities of the barrel maker Jean Falla. One finds well for example - compressed steel CAP JF - or - Nickel Compound CAP JF - etc the company Jean Falla was registered with the proofhouse of Liege of 1931 to 1953.

The engraver Léonard Smeets was appointed engraver of His Majesty the King in 1952 (see the heading “engravers” on the www.littlegun.be site.

GP with the effective and appreciated assistance HPH.

Identification 3171

Here traditional a pinfire revolver, of gauge 9 mm to be judged some by the cartridge joined, with plates of grips in ivory, engraved, and with relatively short barrel. It is undoubtedly about a production of the house Auguste Francotte.

Markings

F crowned on the cylinder: countermark of controller 1853-1877

20 on the cylinder: undoubtedly a mark of the founder of the barrel.

A crowned on the barrel: countermark of controller 1853-1877

Y crowned: countermark of controller 1853-1877

ELG in an oval on the cylinder: punch of acceptance between 1846 and 1893.

LF: not indexed (perhaps in keeping with Lefaucheux?).

Crowned AF: more than probably the mark of the prolific house Auguste Francotte (see the website littlegun.be)

653: undoubtedly the number of the weapon.

9 KC on the casing: mark Austrian cartridge factory Keller and C° of Vienna.

Identification 3173

Here a small revolver of Belgian manufacturing gauges 6.35 of uneven type of them, with folding trigger, opening “topbreak” resembling by far to a Smith & Wesson. The squared plates of grips are maintained by a transverse screw.

Markings

R crowned: rifled bore between 1894 and 1968

PV surmonted by a little Lion: test with the smoke-free powder, between 1898 and 1968

ELG in an oval under crown: acceptance between 1893 and 1968

J under star: countermark of the controller between 1877 and 1968

6.35 Br: gauge 6.35 Browning (this ammunition was born around 1906)

Under the plates: "QR" under crown? not identified, and "LA" for the Establishments Léonard Andre?

LLH: could be Laurent Lochet-Habran, house founded in 1860. It deposited three patents between 1884 and 1897 but they have nothing to do with the revolver in question. It also deposited a trademark in Liege in 1904.

Between the two wars, the house was especially active in the manufacturing of barrels of quality.

Identification 3174

Here a Belgian copy “cheap” of rifle Kentucky to percussion, or Pennsylvania Long Rifle, as one produced some a long time in Liege, sometimes like parts in kit to assemble and finish oneself, in particular at Centaure and Raick. The firms Italian Pedersoli and Spanish Ardesa are known for counterparts of very good quality.

The origin of this kind of rifle would be German. It was very popular in the American colonists in second half of the 18th century and with the beginning of 19th.

There are only two markings:

punch ELG on star in an oval, for the barrels to be charged by the mouth since 1893,

and 11.4, the diameter of the barrel, i.e. .45.

On the right side of the stick the “patch traditional box is”.

Identification 3175

Here a rifle SxS hammerless system Anson quasi centenary. On the barrels one can read Fabrique d’Armes Réunies Liège (Manufactory Joined together Liège). The fitting of the stick leaves something to be desired so much that one can suppose that it is not the original stick.

Markings

Peron: punch of inspection since 1853

ELG in crowned oval: acceptance, of application between 1893 and 1968

EL: provisional test since 1852

T under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

PV on Lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of application between 1898 and 1968

16 in rhombus: indication of the gauge, application between 1898 and 1924

P 1K326.3: weight of the barrel, application between 1892 and 1924

D 65 out of 19.00 m/m: length of the room (65 mm) and diameter in mm after the optional test with the smoke-free powder, of application between 1892 and 1924

HP: initial (of the gunner?) not identified

AD under star: countermark of the controller since 1877

34555: undoubtedly the number of the weapon

16.4 out of 17.0 choke: barrel choke in mm to 22 cm of the breech and the mouth, of application between 1910 and 1924.

The " Fabrique d’Armes Réunies S.A." was registered with the proofhouse of Liege of 1901 to 1920. It was established street Charles Morren, 26-28 in Liege. It was made up in 1901 by Albert Simonis, Antoine & Fils Bertrand, A. Riga & Co, Pirlot and Frésart and part of Pirlot Frères. In 1920, the activity is taken over by the F.AU.L. (Arms factory Plain of Liege, street Trapped, 22, in Liege).

The FAR deposited thirteen patents between 1905 and 1921 for rifles, guns and revolvers.

Identification 3176

Voici une très intéressante carabine-jouet Legia d’un des membres de la dynastie Pieper, en l’occurrence Nicolas Pieper ; il s’agit plus précisément du modèle A, datant de l’immédiat après-guerre (1 GM).

Comme il ne s’agit pas d’une arme à proprement parler, il n’y a pas de poinçon. On trouve sur la crosse côté droit la mention Carabine Legia et un dessin du perron liégeois (qui ressemble beaucoup à la marque pour le pistolet Legia déposée le 22 juin 1915), côté gauche la mention « fabrication liégeoise » entourant les initiales NP de Nicolas Pieper qui ressemblent beaucoup (mais en plus alambiqué…) à la marque déposée le 7 janvier 1907.

On trouve à la page 158 du livre « Bayard, les hommes, les armes et les machines du Chevalier Pieper & Cie » de Michel Druart (dont une nouvelle version en anglais est attendue prochainement) le contexte historique des armes-jouets fabriquées pendant et après la Première Guerre mondiale dans le cadre de l’opération « Panem Labore », encourageant la fabrication de nombreux objets, notamment des armes-jouets, pour occuper les ouvriers de l’industrie armurière « en chômage technique ».

Le mécanisme permettait de « tirer avec des amorces en papier contenant un peu de poudre noire ou des capsules pour éteindre une lumière placée à courte distance » (pour tous les modèles). Tous ces jouets – sauf le Modèle A – tiraient aussi des petits projectiles (appelés Numéro 3).

La carabine-jouet Modèle A en question relève du brevet de perfectionnement 273370 du 18 avril 1918 s’appliquant au brevet principal 270792 du 24 décembre 1915.

On la retrouve sur la page d’un catalogue de 1919 reproduite ci-dessous.

Deux remarques : le pontet n’est pas d’origine mais vient d’une arme plus ancienne, peut-être hollandaise.

Je me pose aussi des questions sur la nature et l’emploi de la pièce située près de l’attache inférieure de bretelle et qu’on ne voit pas sur la page du catalogue. Elle me fait penser à la tige extractrice qu’on trouve sur les carabines semi-automatiques Bayard 1912. Mais il faudrait la dévisser de la crosse pour en savoir plus.

Il s’agit en tout cas d’une pièce très rare, quasi centenaire, en très bon état, qui a résisté non seulement aux outrages du temps, mais aussi et surtout à ceux des jeux d’enfant(s) !

GP avec l’aide efficace et très appréciée de PHL et MD.

La marque NP a été déposée le 21 avril 1906 alors que Nicolas Pieper était toujours renseigné Rue Hayeneux 64 à Herstal.

La marque Legia Pistol a été déposée le 22 juin 1915, quand Nicolas était renseigné Rue Bonne Nouvelle 5 à Liège, par contre, je ne trouve pas trace d'un dépôt de marque pour le logo carabine Legia.

Une partie des infos se trouvent dans ma collection, une autre dans l'excellent livre de Michel p. 176

P-H

Le "NP alambiqué" me semble très proche de celui de la plaquette de pistolet, modèle déposé en 1907. Je ne vois rien d’autre dans ses marques déposées (en annexe si vous ne les avez pas).

Pour la marque Legia, ne s’est-il pas contenté de reprendre la marque déposée en 1915 pour un pistolet automatique ? Il reste pas mal d’inexpliqué dans l’histoire de Nicolas…

M(ichel) D.

Identification 3178

Voici un revolver à percussion de calibre un peu supérieur à 7 mm, que des collègues qui ont de meilleurs yeux que moi attribuent à Pierre-Joseph Fagard de Saint-Rémy ; ce dernier a déposé trois brevets entre 1855 et 1857.

En effet l'inscription "P......... Breveté" pourrait être " Pierre Fagard breveté".

Mais le revolver en question ne correspond à aucun de ces brevets, du fait de l’absence de bras de chargement côté droit. De sorte qu’on ne peut être tout à fait affirmatif.

Il n’y a pas de poinçon, seulement le numéro 888 à deux endroits, et un 1.

On voit aussi les initiales NC qui pourraient être attribuées à N. Courard, mais là aussi sans garantie aucune.

GP avec l’aide de PHL et HPH

Identification 3179

Here a rifle with percussion with back lock leaving the workshops of Joseph Lemille in Liege.

Markings :

ELG on star in an oval: acceptance between 1818 and 1893.

Crowned JL: undoubtedly the initial ones of Joseph Lemille. They are also reproduced on other weapons of the same manufacturer. See the www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20l/a%20lemille%20fr.htm site

It had been interesting to dismount the weapon to see whether there are punches under the gun. It is quasi certainly the case.

The other punches are undoubtedly those of military controllers.

I do not manage to decipher the marking of the stick. Do I believe to distinguish a L, for Lemille?

The weapon resembles French rifle much model 1842, but in the absence of numerical data, of the gauge, rifled bore or smooth, etc, it is difficult to say some more.

Joseph Lemille was registered with the proofhouse of Liege of 1836 to 1874. He lived of 1811 to 1882.

He was the son of a soldier of the Empire which remained in Liege.

He deposited three patents but they have nothing to do with the weapon in question. He is especially known to have been one of the founder members of the Museum of Weapons of Liege by bequeathing at the end of his life at the City the hotel of Hayme de Bomal, quay of Maestricht, which became the MAL (Musée d'armes de Liège). Its widow also bequeathed some 500 weapons which are always preserved by the museum.

GP with GG (†) and PHL

Identification 3181

Here a revolver style “bull dog” of Belgian manufacturing whose gauge was not communicated to us. It could be in 6 mm Vélodog to judge some by the length of the cylinder, but the diameter of the rooms and the barrel seems higher to us than 6 mm, so that one can also think of another cartridge like the 7.62 Nagant. Safety known as “German” (superfluous) on the left side. Stem of ejection swivelling in line with cylinder, squared plates connected by a transverse screw and its rivet washers.

Markings

PV on Lion: test with the smoke-free powder, of application between 1898 and 1968.

ELG in oval under crown: punch of acceptance, application between 1893 and 1968

R crowned: rifled bore, of application between 1894 and 1968

Y under star: countermark of the controller, application between 1877 and 1968.

2568: undoubtedly the number of the weapon.

Patented JFM: undoubtedly the initial ones of the manufacturer who could be Jacques François Martin. One finds them on another revolver evoked on the site Littlegun http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20ma/a%20martin%20jacques%20francois%20fr.htm

It was active in Dalhem around 1866 then in Liege around 1884-1885, but we do not know until which year. It deposited patents concerning of the mechanisms of revolver but they do not correspond to the weapon presented. It is consequently necessary to take the mention “Patented” either like “patentee of arms manufacturer”, or like anybody having deposited patents. And not in the direction of a weapon concerned with a quite precise patent.

It is a very current weapon of which one manufactured thousands of specimens (often cheap) in various gauges until before 1933 (coming into effect in Belgium of a more restrictive legislation as regards detention of weapons). As it goes back to after 1898 and that one does not know when JF Martin did stop his activities, one - (light?)- doubt remains in attribution.

GP with the appreciated assistance of PHL and GG †

Identification 3182

Voici un très classique fusil de chasse juxtaposé de type Anson, de fabrication liégeoise. Clé d’ouverture « top lever ». Longuesse à poussoir, crosse anglaise.

Les marquages

EL en lettres cursives : épreuve provisoire en vigueur depuis 1852

Perron : inspection, en vigueur entre depuis 1853

12 C dans losange : calibre du fusil, en usage entre 1898 et 1924

L sous étoile, M sous étoile, AE sous étoile : contremarque du contrôleur, en vigueur entre 1877 et 1968

39166 : sans doute le numéro de l’arme

Lion sur PV : épreuve à la poudre vive, en vigueur entre 1898 et 1968

P 1k296.4 : poids du canon, en vigueur entre 1892 et 1924

Acier Cockerill : type de l’acier utilisé pour les canons

ELG dans ovale sous couronne : acceptation, en vigueur entre 1893 et 1968

D 70 m sur 20,6 : longueur de la chambre (70 mm) et diamètre en mm après épreuve facultative à la poudre vive, en vigueur de 1892 et 1924

Choke 17,2 sur 18,5 et 17,7 sur 18,3 : canons chokés, en vigueur entre 1910 et 1924.

LN ou M : peut-être les lettres du canonnier, non identifiées jusqu’à présent.

On peut donc conclure que l’arme a été fabriquée entre 1910 et 1924.

La manufacture d'armes Lepage signait toutes ses armes, celle-ci n'étant pas signée il est peu probable qu'elle soit de cette manufacture !!

AD (Webmaster)

Identification 3183

Here a "pistol revolver" (also called pepperbox) for six pin cartridges signed Deprez Patented. Gauge not communicated, undoubtedly of the 7 mm pinfire. Squared plates of stick out of wooden maintained by a transverse screw. Light engravings. Folding trigger. No door of loading since the axis of the cylinder is unscrewed to allow the loading/unloading. It is also the axis which is used as stem of ejection.

Markings

ELG on star in oval: acceptance between 1846 and 1893

V crowned (twice): countermark of the controller between 1853 and 1877.

NF: the founder? It cannot in any case be question of Neuprez Frères of Herstal which manufactured barrels around 1924.

Jean Mathieu Deprez of Wandre deposited seven patents between 1857 and 1867, including 014026 of March 4th, 1863 for a mode of closing of the "pistol revolvers" which is that of this machine.

This weapon was thus manufactured between 1863 and 1877.

Identification 3184

Here a revolver with six shots, of military style, gauge 9,1mm (perhaps one .380) resulting from association A. Simonis, J. Jansen and Dumoulin Frères (Brothers) & Co. It comprises left side a swivelling door giving access to the mechanism as one finds of them several alternatives in this end of 19th century. Door of loading on the right, rod of ejection in the style of the lawful revolver French 1873 Chamelot-Delvigne.

Markings

ELG on star in oval: acceptance between 1846 and July 11th, 1893

Z under star: countermark of the controller between 1877 and 1968.

S J & D: association Simonis, Jansen and Dumoulin

The working life of association S J & D is not known for us. It deposited eight patents between 1883 and 1886, but none relates to a revolver. It also deposited several trademarks (until November 1889). See on the site littlegun: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20s/a%20simonis%20janssen%20and%20dumoulin%20fr.htm

Albert Simonis was registered with the proofhouse of Liege of 1873 to 1900. He deposited 19 patents, but none relates to this revolver.

Dumoulin Frères was registered with the proofhouse of Liege of 1877 to 1894. They deposited six patents of 1879 to 1890 but none relates to this revolver.

We do not know which of Jansen in Liege belonged to association: undoubtedly Joseph, but its working life seems to start in 1894.

The weapon is thus in any case former to July 11th, 1893.

Identification 3187

Here a traditional shotgun juxtaposed with external hammers, key of opening Top lever, forearm with push rod, stick semi-pistol with cheek.

Markings

ELG on star in oval under crown: acceptance between 1893 and 1968

Lion on PV: test with the smoke-free powder, between 1898 and 1968

Peron: inspection, since 1853

X and S under star: countermarks of controllers, since 1877

57869: undoubtedly the number of the weapon

P: could be the initial one of Pirard, gunner, but without guarantee none.

20 on C in a rhombus: gauge weapon, between 1898 and 1924

EL: provisional test since 1852

Choke 14.8 over 15.5: chokes barrels, between 1910 and 1924

P OK989.2: weight of the barrel which can draw from the smoke-free powders, between 1892 and 1924

D= 65 mm over 17.7: length of the room in mm, and diameter in mm after the optional test with the smoke-free powder, of application between 1892 and 1924.

JW: initial not identified.

Star with five branches with a crown in the medium and letters JRB: one of the registered trademarks by the Manufactory Jean-Baptiste Rongé Fils SA, place Midsummer's Day 4 in Liege, then place Xavier Neujean by change of denomination. It was founded in 1789. It was registered with the proofhouse of Liege of 1832 to 1929. It deposited several patents between 1894 and 1929, and several trademarks between 1894 and 1897.

The activities were taken over by company ARMAF in 1929.

One can thus conclude that the weapon was manufactured between 1910 and 1924.

GP with the appreciated assistance of PHL

Identification 3189

Here a beautiful shotgun juxtaposed to key top lever, stick semi-pistol with cheek, forearm with push rod and indicators of armament of the strikers, marked on the engraving of the rocker “Francotte Original”.

Markings

HJA: undoubtedly the initial ones of a preceding owner.

Fluss Stahl: type of steel.

Lion on PV: test with the smoke-free powder, of 1898 to 1968

12-70 in an omega: gauge nominal and length of the casing, 1924 to our days

JF: initial of the manufacturer of barrels Jean Falla

18.5 choke 18.4: chokes barrels, between 1924 and 1968

Crowned AF: one of the marks of the house Auguste Francotte

1kg 278: weight of the barrel, since 1924 until our days

P: undoubtedly the yearly letter of 1937

U under star: countermark of the controller between 1877 and 1968

ELG on star in crowned oval: acceptance between 1893 and 1968.

The weapon was thus manufactured between 1924 and 1968 and more than probably in 1937.

We did not find until now which is the inventor of the indicators of armament of the strikers. It is not Auguste Francotte or one of his descendants/successors, according to the analysis of the patents of this famous house inhabitant of Liège in our possession (but we do not certainly have them all). Research continues.

Identification 3192

Pistolet Bijou dont la marque a été déposée par Alexandre Dupont ; en réalité un pistolet conçu par August Menz (Suhl).

Voici un pistolet en calibre 6,35 mm, relevant du brevet de culasse pour pistolets automatiques déposé en Belgique sous le numéro 325664 le 23 avril 1925 par August Menz de Suhl ; le même brevet avait été déposé en Allemagne le 2 octobre 1924.

Les marquages :

Bijou Bté 325664 Liège Belgique : le numéro du brevet (déposé en Allemagne)

6,35 Br : le calibre 6,35 Browning

Lion sur PV : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée entre 1898 et 1968

K sous étoile : contremarque du contrôleur depuis 1877

ELG sur étoile dans ovale couronné : acceptation entre 1893 et 1968

Bijou : marque commerciale déposée par Alexandre Dupont, rue de la Province 19 à Liège le 31 mai 1928 sous le numéro 3722. Il a été inscrit au Banc d’Epreuves de Liège entre 1923 et 1961. La société est alors devenue la Maison Dupont A. à la même adresse, inscrite au BE de 1962 à 1970.

En fait, ce pistolet fabriqué en Belgique est similaire à un pistolet en 6,35 Br. d’August Menz, appelé Liliput modèle 1926, ainsi qu’il ressort de la photo jointe. August Menz avait également déposé la marque commerciale Bijou en Allemagne.

GP avec l’aide efficace et appréciée de HPH, MD et MAX

Identification 3193

Here a school rifle of the type “La Française mod. 21” as one can read it on the wood.

These rifles were very popular at the end of the 19th century, and still after the First World War. They were intended for the school battalions and the shooting clubs (gathered within the Union of the Shooting clubs of France created in 1886).

They are generally inspired by the silhouette of Lebel, with a bolt right or bent like here. Their calibre is usually the 6 mm Flobert like models it presented for the shooting to 10-12 m. On request, one could also have a version with a more powerful ammunition to draw with 150-200 m. It would be necessary to examine the rise of the model presented to determine the type.

These school rifles were produced by about twenty manufacturers.

There was also a former model, of 1894.

The repertoire of French arms manufacture Jarlier-Buigné mentions Micheron in Blois in 1931 and Micheron with Mâcon around 1931-1964.

GP with the assistance of PHL and MD

Identification 3194

Here a very traditional revolver of Belgian manufacturing, calibre and number of rooms not communicated, with side safety on the left known as German, door of loading on the right and rod swivelling of ejection maintained in line with cylinder.

Markings

Belgium on the barrel: to be sure that it is a Belgian production…

R crowned: punch for the rifled bores, between 1894 and 1968

S under star: countermark of the controller between 1877 and 1968

L under crown: not identified, perhaps the founder of the barrel

ELG on star in crowned oval: acceptance between 1893 and 1968

JFM Bté: it is perhaps about Jacques François Martin of Dalhem (1866) then established in Liege street Gérardrie 31, around 1884-1885. As an indication: It deposited three patents between these dates, but none relates to the weapon in question. We write “perhaps” since according to the current data, it was active between 1866 and 1885. However, the revolver was as soon as possible manufactured between 1894. Admittedly, one does not prevent the other…

GP with the assistance of MD

Identification 3197

Voici un pistolet semi-automatique de Nicolas Pieper, plus précisément le Mod D démontant de 1909, en calibre 6,35 Br.

Les marquages

Pistolet automatique N. Pieper Bté SGDG voir plus bas

Lion sur PV : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée entre 1898 et 1968

Perron : inspection depuis 1853

A surmonté de la barre horizontale de T majuscule : non identifié

ARICO : marque commerciale non déposée

Pour ce qui est de Nicolas Pieper, je n’ai rien à ajouter à ce qu’ont écrit avant moi Michel Druart dans son livre sur « Pieper & Cie, les hommes, les armes et les machines du Chevalier Bayard », et Guy Gadisseur (†) qui a rédigé un résumé pour littlegun.be

Le voici

Né à Liège le 31 octobre 1870. Second fils d’Henri Pieper et de Catherine Elisabeth Leroy.

Dès l’âge de treize ans il entame son apprentissage auprès de son père. Peu avant le décès de celui-ci il prend la direction de l’usine de la rue des Bayards tandis que celle de Nessonvaux échoit à son frère Edouard Herman (Armand). En quelques années, la diversification excessive des activités de l’entreprise mène celle-ci au bord de la faillite et entraîne sa liquidation ainsi que l’éviction des deux frères Pieper en août 1905. (voir Ets Pieper). Nicolas se voit contraint de monter sa propre affaire, qui deviendra la Fabrique d’armes automatiques Nicolas Pieper. Pour cela il bénéficiera du soutien de son beau-frère , Auguste Lambrecht, fabricant de pièces estampées, qui mettra des locaux, de taille modeste, à sa disposition au 42 puis au 5-7 rue Bonne Nouvelle à Liège.

Nicolas achètera plusieurs brevets couvrant des pistolets automatiques à un armurier liégeois, Jean Warnant. Il y apportera des améliorations et produira plusieurs modèles baptisés « Démontant » et « Basculant ». Ce dernier, appelé aussi modèle 1909 sera fabriqué sous licence par la Waffenfabrik Steyr en Autriche, jusqu’aux années 30.

Parallèlement, Nicolas Pieper poursuivra la fabrication de fusils de chasse de divers types, inspirés des brevets de son père.

La Première guerre mondiale freinera considérablement ses activités qui seront réduites à la création d’armes-jouets d’excellente qualité.

Après 1918, il s’installera au 292 de la rue Vivegnis. Il fera l’acquisition du brevet d’un armurier nommé Hippolyte Thonon concernant un pistolet de poche semi-automatique. Celui-ci, une copie du FN Browning 1906, sera fabriqué sous le nom de pistolet Légia, peut-être dans un atelier ouvert à Paris par Nicolas Pieper en 1922.

Après 1923, on ne trouve plus trace de ses activités armurières. Il décédera à Liège dix ans plus tard en 1933 dans la maison familiale de la rue des Bayards.

Production armurière

Fusil de chasse doubles à chiens extérieurs et Hammerless à canons lisses ; Pistolets automatiques de type Démontant et Basculant (modèles A,B,C,A.D. et D) ; pistolet automatique Légia ; carabine type 500 et 501 semi-automatiques ; carabines type 504 et 505 à verrou ; carabine de tir à devant coulissant.

Armes jouets de différents types : imitation Mauser 1889 à amorces, fusils de chasse en miniature.

Alarme de porte à détonation.

Brevets déposés en Belgique

45 au total de 1899 à 1923 concernant les pistolets automatiques, les carabines de petit calibre, les fusils de chasse, les armes jouets, combinaison de sabre et de pistolet, etc.

Marques de fabrique belges

N et P entrelacés (21 avril 1906).

Pistolet automatique Pieper ; Pieper’s Automatic Pistol : Pistolet Pieper ; Pieper’s Pistol (juillet 1906).

Une plaquette de pistolet avec N et P entrelacés (7 janvier 1907).

Illustration Pistolet Nicolas PIEPER (11 décembre 1907).

N.PIEPER’S PATENT (29 février 1908).

Carabine Pieper ; Automatic Rifle Pieper’s Patent ; Pieper’s Automatic Rifle ; Rifle Pieper’s Patent ; Carabine automatique Pieper ; Pieper’s Rifle (15 février 1909)

Nicolas Pieper Centaure (avec centaure) (4 février 1913)

Légia Pistol (22 juin 1915)

Nicolas Pieper a été inscrit au Banc d’épreuves de Liège entre 1906 et 1927.

GP, MD, GG (†) et PHL

Identification 3198

Here a revolver pinfire marked “Brevetés Comblain” on the one hand and Arendt on the other hand, without trigger guard, with folding trigger and rod placed along the framework of which a part, with right angle of the rod, is also used to prevent the cartridges from falling from the cylinder. It is damage which one does not have of photograph of this species of door preventing the cartridges from falling.

Markings

ELG on star in an oval: acceptance between 1846 and 1893

V crowned: countermark of the controller between 1853 and 1877

This kind of revolver with rod/door was already the object of a note on the site littlegun.be www.littlegun.be/ma_collection/belgique/be%20klmno/a%20be%20mangeot%20et%20comblain%20fr.htm

It seems to correspond to patent 8182 of 1859.

It is not the first time that it is given to us to see marking “patented Comblain” on a revolver with the same system of rod also which serves as door. It resembles very extremely the punch which used between 1854 and 1861 Mangeot-Comblain association for their many alternatives of revolvers with percussion (from where the mention “patented” in the plural), punch which appears in the note evoked above. Do we suppose that Comblain, after the end of association, continued - by avarice? - to use the punch but by taking care to strike some that the lower part the edge of the framework of its revolvers produced after 1861 or by modifying (= filing) the punch.

As for Arendt, it is quasi certainly about Maurice Arendt, registered gunmaker with the proofhouse of Liege between 1857 and 1889, which deposited about ten patents between 1864 and 1885. Undoubtedly he also worked for Hubert Comblain when this last was more devoted to its rifles with falling block.

Identification 3199

Voici un fusil de chasse à canons juxtaposés, chiens extérieurs pour percussion centrale, fermeture clé sur le pontet, crosse française sculptée. Avec une mention « FR Navarro » sur la platine arrière droite, « Commandé » sur la platine gauche, et une mention « Canons Bernard Liège » sur la bande entre les canons.

Les marquages

S sous étoile : contremarque du contrôleur entre 1877 et 1968

Perron : inspection depuis 1853

ELG sur étoile dans ovale : acceptation entre 1846 et 1893

EL : épreuve provisoire depuis 1852

16 : pourrait être le calibre ;

JG : non identifié ; on pourrait penser au canonnier Jean Gilles Delcour mais ses initiales sont JGD.

Il y a aussi d’autres marques mais indéchiffrables et non identifiables

La mention Commandé FR (ou s’agit-il de « par ») Navarro n’a pas été identifiée.

La mention « Canons Bernard Liège » est fort sujette à caution, dans la mesure où les canons Bernard sont de très bonne qualité et aussi signés sur la table sous les canons.

Identification 3200

Here a pinfire rifle of good condition, signed Broqua with Auchs (sic), whose barrels in Damas are signed E. Bernard gunner, with punches of Liège.

Markings

ELG on star in oval: acceptance between 1846 and 1893

EL: provisional test since 1852

H under star: countermark of the controller of 1877 to 1968

Peron: inspection since 1853

17.0: gauge in mm (either a gauge 16)

LD under crown: not identified

EB under crown in oval: undoubtedly the mark of Henri-Eugene Bernard, deposited in 1862.

Henri-Eugene Bernard was active since 1840 and it thus deposited a mark on January 18th, 1862 (according to Jarlier-Buigné). See also the site littlegun.be under this name.

Always according to Jarlier-Buigné, the Broqua arms manufacturer in Auchs (sic, insofar as one writes the name of this city of Gers without “S”, even if the natives attached to their language pronounce it…) was active in 1900. However, this pin rifle is former to this date since going back at the latest to 1893.

Identification 3201

Voici un classique fusil de chasse juxtaposé hammerless fabriqué à Liège pour l’exportation vers les Etats-Unis. L’arme a en effet été vendue par la maison William Read & Sons de Boston, spécialisée dans les articles de sport et les armes pendant près d’un siècle. Du coup, il présente non seulement des marquages belges, mais aussi américains.

Les marquages

BELGIUM : indication que l’arme est destinée à l’exportation

EL : épreuve provisoire depuis 1852

12C dans un losange : calibre entre 1898 et 1924

D 65 mm sur 20.6 : longueur de la chambre et diamètre en mm après l’épreuve facultative à la poudre vive de 1892 à 1924

S et X et R sous étoile : contremarques de contrôleurs depuis 1877

Perron : inspection depuis 1853

ELG sur étoile dans ovale sous couronne : acceptation entre 1893 et 1968

Choke 17.5 sur 18.4 : canons chokés entre 1910 et 1924

JD : pourraient être les initiales de Jean Duchateau, mais lequel ? Nous avons connaissance d’un Jean Duchateau rue DD Salme à Liège, sans indication de dates d’activités. Mais il y a aussi un homonyme inscrit au BE de 1923 à 1925, rue Fush 28 à Liège. Il s’est associé de 1925 à 1936 avec Jules Thonon. Le reste de son histoire sort du cadre de cette identification.

P 1k711 : poids du canon depuis 1924 pour des canons pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée

Sur la bande Krupp Steel William Read & Sons Boston : le type d’acier utilisé et le nom du vendeur de l’arme aux Etats-Unis.

3.3 grs powder et 1 1sur 8 OZ shot : soit une traduction des épreuves belges, soit une nouvelle épreuve aux Etats-Unis.

Il y a donc trois « problèmes » puisque le marquage du choke est celui utilisé jusqu’en 1924, tandis que le poids du canon est exprimé selon la version postérieure à 1924. De plus, la mention de la longueur de la chambre et du diamètre en mm après l’épreuve facultative à la poudre vive est aussi celle utilisée jusqu’en 1924.

Enfin, je ne vois nulle part le poinçon du lion sur PV indiquant une épreuve à la poudre vive, d’usage entre 1898 et 1968.

Je suppose que l’axe pourvu d’une flèche dorée qui s’aligne sur une autre flèche dorée sur la platine est un indicateur d’armé.

La société William Read and Sons de Boston a exercé des activités de ventes d’articles de sport et d’armes depuis 1826 jusque pendant la 1^e Guerre mondiale.

Identification 3204

Here a shotgun juxtaposed to external hammers, key of opening Top lever between the hammers, stick semi-pistol and with cheek, of Belgian manufacturing.

Markings

Peron: inspection since 1853

EL: provisional test since 1852

16 C in vertical rhombus: gauge between 1898 and 1924

TV 16: not identified.

SPI: punch undoubtedly of François Dumoulin (located in 1899) or of the Syndicat des Pièces Interchangeables (Trade union of the Interchangeable Parts).

ELG on star in crowned oval: acceptance between 1893 and 1968

CHOKE 16.9: choke barrel, between 1898 and 1910

K under star: countermark of the controller between 1877 and 1968

P reversed under star: undoubtedly a countermark of controller.

According to “Who's who arms manufacture of Liège” which allots SPI to François Dumoulin, this last was registered with the proofhouse of Liege between 1894 and 1908 as a gunmaker, Boulevard of Sauvenière 102 in Liege in 1894, then street the St. Lawrence 99 in Liege in 1898. He is then manager and associated firm Dumoulin François & Co, street Thier of Fountain 2 in Liege. This company was registered with the proofhouse of Liege of 1908 to 1968. In 1968, the activity was taken over by the Establishments Georges Laloux.

There is still another possible attribution, namely with the Syndicat des Pièces Interchangeables (Trade union of the Interchangeable Parts), credit of 1899 to 1946, consisted Neumann Frères, Jansen and Fils and Dumoulin Fils & C°. This grouping received parts coming from the National Factory of Weapons of war (FN) and the weapons were assembled and finished by the three associated firms.

There would exist three marks then: SPI, SPI in a rectangle (mentioned in Which is which arms manufacture liégeoisei, and SPI in a circle (mentioned in volume 6 to appear LIEGE GUNMAKERS of Alain Daubresse).

See here to details about these books : http://www.littlegun.be/livres/a%20a%20livre%20alain%20general.htm

Identification 3206

Here a beautiful shotgun SXS with locks of the house Louis Christophe of Brussels. Engraving is signed M. Hannay.

The house Louis Christophe was well-known in Brussels until the beginning of the years 1970. Located Gallery of the Queen, it is related to Henri Mangeot, then in Joseph Montigny.

M. Hannay is an engraver of Liège which one finds the trace street of Kinkempois with Angleur in 1929. He is mentioned in the 1933.1935 and 1938 old directory at another address, street saint Paul, 39. In the directory of 1944, it is always with the same address but as a grocer (one can suppose that it had “to be recycled” during the 2nd GM…). It does not appear any more in the directory of 1953.

GP with the very appreciated assistance of PHL.

Identification 3207

Here a traditional juxtaposed rifle of the FN. The weapon passed by two proofhouses.

Belgian markings

ELG on star in crowned oval: acceptance between 1893 and 1968

12 C in vertical rhombus: gauge between 1898 and 1924

Peron: inspection since 1853

Lion on PV: test with the smoke-free powder between 1898 and 1968

R under star: countermark of a controller since 1877

P 1 kg???.4: weight of the barrel between 1892 and 1924

D 65 mm over 20.6: length of the room and diameter in mm after the optional test with the smoke-free powder between 1892 and 1924

English markings (provided)

R under crown: new test in England for a foreign weapon

BNP: punch of Birmingham since February 1st, 1955

12x65: gauges and length of the room? It is neither a Belgian punch nor an English punch…

18.2: undoubtedly the diameter in mm.

850 BAR: undoubtedly pressure

I see also two swords crossed with letters: that resembles by far the old English punches of before 1904…

Consequently, I can say that, according to the Belgian punches, the weapon was manufactured with the FN between 1898 and 1924 and even before 1922 being given the absence of yearly letter (practical started in 1922).

It was undoubtedly exported in England and was represented with the proofhouse of Birmingham after 1955. But I am not explained the 12x65, I want to say the length of the casing expressed in mm and not in inches… Unless there was a passage in a third proofhouse ?

Identification 3208

Here a semi-automatic pistol of pocket, probably gauges some 6.35, manufactured by the house Auguste Francotte, on a patent deposited in 1913 by Emile Hermann (who, curiously, does not appear in “Who's who arms manufacture of Liège) and Charles Parent (registered with proofhouse of Liège 1912).

Markings

A Francotte à Liege: very well known house activates of 1810 to 1991 in Liege

Patent 19141: mystery, because it does not appear (and due, to see further) among the very many patents deposited by the house Auguste Francotte.

626: undoubtedly the number of the weapon?

In fact, and thanks to the searchs for MAX, it Appert that this gun was designed per MM Emile Hermann and Charles Parent, who deposited on June 19th, 1913 patent 257794 referring to the pistol in question. The house Auguste Francotte is thus the manufacturer, but not the inventor. It also designed a gun of pocket around 1912, but it is not the gun under review.

Let us note that Emile Hermann had already deposited a patent for a small gun in 1910 under number 224179, but it does not have any relationship with this one.

Also let us raise that A.B. Zhuk announces also the existence of a pistol Hermann (n° 1451, page 182), but it has any relationship neither with the patent of 1910, nor with that under review.

GP with the effective assistance of MAX

The lock seems me to be of hammerless type although the photographs are hardly explicit in this place!! I thus have a doubt?

The opening is practiced by pressing two pedals placed on both sides console, system corresponding to a patent n° 064421 of the 8.3.1884 of Léonard WARNANT-FRANQUET (see technical drawing in appendix).

The rifled bore is round with a rectangular higher band carrying a back sight in half-moon.

SEL under a small triangle: isn't the reading of this mark certain, that could just as easily be BEL?? This mark was not discovered in the book of markings arms manufacturers of Liège!

L crowned: this mark should be the mark of the foundry in theory having produced this cylinder but this information could not still be confirmed.

These weapons of average manufacture were produced in thousands of specimens for export. They were sold most of the time by batches of 100 parts. They were never accompanied by any holsters. Your specimen is not thus origin but subsequently added in the country of purchase of your weapon.

The punches teach us that the weapon was manufactured in LIEGE between 1910 and 1924.

New Haven Arms is probably a trademark fictitious because it does not appear in documentation, just like the word INTERCHANGEABLE which us was already announced on the mark REGENT ARMS quite as unknown!

These fictitious denominations were not rare in LIEGE at this time, they were probably intended to mislead the customs of the countries of South America large importers of weapons of Liege. It’s also probable that the import duties were important! The traffic of weapons was currency running fine of the XIXe beginning of the XXe century.

For the small history, documentation gives a report on a mark REGENT allotted in 1913 to the manufacturer SCHNORRENBERG W & Fils street of the South, 5 in Brussels. We are unaware of if there is correlation between these elements?

Il s’agit d’un pistolet à percussion centrale, à répétition manuelle et à bloc descendant qui ressemble assez fort au bien connu pistolet REFORM.

Les 4 canons sont superposés et le calibre n’a pas été communiqué, du 6,35 vraisemblablement.

Comme les poinçons l’indiquent, l’arme a été fabriquée à LIEGE. Elle ne porte aucune marque de fabricant ni de brevet ce qui semble indiquer une copie ou une adaptation.

L’arme porte une jolie gravure en fond creux représentant à gauche une couronne (royale ?) et des feuilles de chênes et à droite une croix pattée entourée de deux glaives.

Les plaquettes en bois de noyer ( ?) sont également sculptées de feuilles de chênes.

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

PV surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve à la poudre sans fumée, en usage de 1898 à 1968.

ND – ML et FL sous une plaquette, sont des marques de sous-traitant non identifiés.

Ces canons en damas de type OXFORD sont à âme lisse et de calibre 12 ou 17,4 mm.

Les platines sont de type « en avant », les chiens sont extérieurs, la clé TOP entre ceux-ci.

Je n’ai pu déchiffrer le motif de la plaque de couche (en corne moulée ou en gutta-percha)

L’arme porte les poinçons réglementaires du banc d’épreuves de Liège, à savoir :

SCH surmonté d’un lion stylisé : épreuve facultative à la poudre sans fumée (Schultze),

P 1K535, 2 : poids du canon pouvant tirer des poudres sans fumée (arme lisse), en usage

D = ?????? (illisible sur la photo) Longueur de la chambre en mm et diamètre en mm

HENRI PIEPER A LIEGE : marque du fabricant, rue des Bayards à LIEGE (voir sa fiche sur le site).

Canon OXFORD Extra (si bien lu ?) Grand Prix de Paris 1880 : sans commentaires.

SPECIALE EMPLOI POUDRE BLANCHE : se disait de la poudre vive par opposition à la poudre noire.

La fermeture se fait à l’aide d’une clé placée sous le pontet de sous-garde.

Les platines sont « en arrière » et les chiens extérieurs à percuteurs apparents.

ELG sur étoile dans un ovale vertical : acceptation définitive en usage de 1846 à 1893.

18.2 17.4 : canons chokés : calibrés en mm à 22 cm de la culasse et à la bouche.

Période de fabrication : les poinçons ci-dessus, nous indique une période de fabrication allant de 1898 à 1910.

SYSTEME H. ROCHATTE BREVETE A PARIS : indique que cette arme est au système ROCHATTE mais j’ignore de quoi il s’agit n’ayant pas accès aux brevets français.

Fabrication : il était très fréquent que les industriels armuriers français du XIXe siècle viennent faire fabriquer leurs armes à LIEGE ou la main d’œuvre était nombreuse, qualifié et moins cher que partout ailleurs !

To give an idea: gauge 12 fact a little more than 18 mm (gun without choke, as the machine which undoubtedly occupies us), a gauge 16 fact a little less than 17 Misters the 17.2 COULD be a gauge 16 (with the accent on the conditional one).

As for LRE: there are thirty pages of arms manufacturers whose name starts with L… in Jarlier/Buignier: not the time of all to read!

Rifle with percussion of the ID 1918 is a traditional piston rifle of cal 16 manufactured in Saint Etienne.

The punch of test is that in function between 1869 and 1879, which is very late for a rifle with percussion, and makes me think of a rifle export or of draft, because it is of very ordinary quality, without squares, engraving and with a barrel in iron.